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Thailand's three Muslim-majority provinces

 
 
Piffka
 
Reply Mon 14 Nov, 2005 10:43 am
How can this rebellion be justified?

ADNKI International News


Quote:
SOUTHERN THAILAND: ACEH-TYPE PEACE ACCORD COULDN'T WORK SAY ANALYSTS
Bangkok, November 14

...Thailand's three Muslim-majority provinces - Yala, Narathiwat and Pattani - rebels fighting for an Islamic state alongside various criminal formations remain locked in an escalating spiral of violence against the Buddhist Thai government in Bangkok.

<...>
An overwhelming 95 percent of Thailand's 65 million population is Buddhist. Muslims living in Thailand's three southernmost regions make up much of the remainining 5 percent. Inhabitants of Thailand's 'Deep South', as Yala, Narathiwat and Pattani are known, cite religious differences as the basis for their struggle for greater autonomy or even independence from Thailand, though they are also divided by language - speaking the Yawi dialect more similar to Malaysian than to Thai.


It seems to me that living in a Buddhist state would be... could be... so peaceful. Why demand autonomy?
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pragmatic
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Nov, 2005 11:49 pm
It seems that it is the "fad" to many regions in major countries now to demand autonomy even if you would stand little to no chance as an independent country.
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goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2005 01:30 am
Sri Lanka is Buddhist too but they've been having that very long war with the Tamil Tigers. I wonder if it's not so much about religion as other cutural and economic issues.

btw I'm not seeking to justify anyone's rebellion, not until I know a lot more about the issues.
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Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2005 10:44 am
Hello Pragmatic.
It does seem odd that our world seems to have so many people desiring small, homogenized countries. We have to wonder if that is that the best way for the world. Do we aim towards many little countries banded together by similar interests or gigantic countries federally managing a lot of separate states? Sometimes I think it would be better for the United States if the USA broke up into individual states and each got a vote in the UN. Maybe China should do the same thing. Wink

Goodfielder -- You are closer to this country. I was hoping you'd know more and could explain what is currently going on.

This is what I know... prior to Western colonization, Sri Lanka was divided into kingdoms for the Tamils and the Sinhalese. The Tamils fought for freedom but when the island received it and became "Sri Lanka" the Sinhalese got all the power. Since then, the Sinhalese, being more numerous have made strong rulings and discrimination against the Tamils, similar, it seems to me, to the historical actions by Americans against Native Americans, including forcing Tamil children to learn Sinhalese, etc. or the actions of Australians against the Aborigines.


Of course that sounds unfair and seems racist. Religion is also mixed up in it.

LTTE wrote:
On 15th of July 1979, after enacting the prevention of Terrorism Act (far more draconian than the notorius Terrorism Act of South Africa) and having declared an Emergency in Jaffna and also having despatched the military to the Tamil north under the command of Brigadier Weeratunga, J.R. Jayewardene, the President of Sri Lanka gave a special directive to the Brigadier in these words: " It will be your duty to eliminate in accordance with the laws of the land the menace of terrorism in all it forms from the Island and more especially from the Jaffna District.


Here's an article from the ADNKI
Quote:
SRI LANKA: TAMIL TIGER BOYCOTT TO HELP PRIME MINISTER IN PRESIDENTIAL POLL (Nov. 10th)With just one week to go until presidential elections in Sri Lanka analysts say a possible boycott by Tamil Tiger rebels will tilt the balance towards the candidate from the ruling United People's Front Alliance (UPFA), prime minister Mahinda Rajapakse. The Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) have publicly announced they were not interested in the November 17 polls.

(The ceasefire came in) February 2002 after a two-decade long insurgency claimed more than 60,000 lives. <...> violence has increased this year with the number of political killings nearing 200, according to the Scandinavian monitors who oversee the ceasefire. (and) ...LTTE has lost sympathy with the international community following the August 12 assassination of the Sri Lankan foreign minister Lakshman Kadirgamar )

Prime minister Rajapakse is fighting the presidential election (ie. a candidate) on an agenda based on taking a tough line with the Tigers.

The other front-runner in the race is Ranil Wickramasinghe, who became Sri Lanka's prime minister in 2001 and negotiated the ceasefire with the Tamil rebels. He lost power in 2004 when President Chandrika Kumaratunga called early elections. Whoever wins the election will be taking over (from current President) Kumaratunga.

... "I do not want the country split into two. We will not give the Tigers their homeland," says Sirisena (a rural farmer), who had never travelled to the north-east of the country.

...56-year-old Margerita Perera, a Christian from Moratuwa, a Colombo suburb, says her vote is determined by religion. "We fear that there might be a restriction on the freedom of religion if Rajapakse wins. ... referring to the controversial anti-conversion bill



Regarding the Anti-Conversion bill and religious affiliations affecting the elections in Sri Lanka: Hindustan Times, Nov 14th -- Key Issues in Lanka Election


Quote:
The Tamils, whether Sri Lankan Tamils of the North East, or the Indian Origin Tamils in the rest of Sri Lanka, fear that they will be discriminated against by a Rajapaksa regime. ... This is not because Rajapaksa is himself undesirable, (he is personally secular and also much loved) but because he could become a puppet in the hands of his allies, the JVP and JHU, which are perceived to be anti-Tamil.

The Christian minority's bugbear is the anti-conversion bill, which the SLFP government tried to enact at the instigation of the JHU. ...
The Muslims too are worried about the new "political Buddhism", spearheaded by the JHU. They resent the setting up Buddha's statues in Muslim villages in East Sri Lanka.



In the end... maybe the real fight is racism:
http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/elango.html

I honestly don't know... I was hoping some other more informed people would discuss this and I could sit back and learn. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2005 10:56 am
I realize the previous post is far afield from the original Thai question. Ah well. I am interested in the politics of Asia.
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2005 06:10 pm
Piffka I'm totally ignorant of the politics of Sri Lanka so I am no help at all. But it's interesting to note that the legislation contains protections and indeed affirmation of the practices of various cultures. For example, they have a small Muslim population I believe but there is legislation which protects not only the religion of Islam but some of its legal practices. It seems that for a long time there was harmony between the various cultures and ethnic/religious groups. It would be instructive to know when the current insurrections began and why.
0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2005 10:40 pm
Tamil tigers were the first to use suicide bombers with bombs strapped to their bodies. The minority Tamilsin Ceylon were supported by Indian Prime Minister as all of the sothern India are Tamils. The Tamils are hindus. Then the Indian Prime Minister did an aboutface and stopped supporting the Ceylonese Tamil rebels. This angered the Tamils and the Indian Prime Minister was killed when he was about to be garlanded by a Tamil lass in India when she triggered the bombs strapped to her body.
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Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2005 11:44 pm
Hi Goodfielder. Good point. Are you saying that there was harmony between the people.... when each had their own separate kingdom? Or when the Dutch were in power? <The Tamils are Dravidians and they've had numerous problems with the Aryans of Northern India since they first bumped into each other. I thought the Dravidians were driven to the south and off the Indian subcontinent.> However, I've just read this essay by David Frawley called The Aryan-Dravidian Controversy and now I don't know what to think. Akkkk.


Talk -- Thanks. Do you think that since the Tamil Tigers have used suicide bombers, their cause can never be considered just?

Seems to me that suicide bombers (heinous as they are) arise in a culture where people are so frustrated and powerless that nothing else seems to work. Maybe it is just my tendency to root for the underdog but the Tamils seem to be getting screwed in Sri Lanka.


I'm just trying to understand what is happening. Go ahead... enlighten me!
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talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2005 03:56 pm
Sometimes the act throws the underlying injustice into the background because of its shock value. As I mentioned that terrorism is really state acts. A terrorist to one is a national hero/heroine to another. The Ceylonese situation is both racial and religious as the Buddhists/Sinhalese are Aryan descendants while the Hindu are of Tamil/Dravidian stock.
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Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2005 01:39 pm
<Nodding> But did you check out that essay? Frawley says the Aryan-Dravidian culture clash is well... overdone. He is apparently considered an expert in his field. (again... I have no knowledge other than what I've been reading)

Quote:
Dr. David Frawley is one of the few Westerners ever recognized in India as a Vedacharya or teacher of the ancient wisdom. In 1991 under the auspices of the great Indian teacher, Avadhuta Shastri, he was named Vamadeva Shastri, after the great Vedic Rishi Vamadeva. In 1995 he was given the title of Pandit along with the Brahmachari Vishwanathji award in Mumbai for his knowledge of the Vedic teaching. Over the years Vamadeva has received many awards and honors for his work from throughout India.


These are the last three paragraphs:
Quote:
Meanwhile the people of north India also need not take this north-south division as something fundamental. It is not a racial difference that makes the skin of south Indians darker but merely the effect of climate. Any Caucasian race group living in the tropics for some centuries or millennia would eventually turn dark. And whatever color a person's skin may be has nothing to do with their true nature according to the Vedas that see the same Self or Atman in all.

It is also not necessary to turn various Vedic gods into Dravidian gods to give the Dravidians equality with the so-called Aryans in terms of the numbers or antiquity of their gods. This only gives credence to what is superficial distinction in the first place. What is necessary is to assert what is truly Aryan in the culture of India, north or south, which is high or spiritual values in character and action. These occur not only in the Vedas but also the Agamas and other scriptures within the greater tradition.

The Aryans and Dravidians are part of the same culture and we need not speak of them as separate. Dividing them and placing them at odds with each other serves the interests of neither but only serves to damage their common culture (which is what most of those who propound these ideas are often seeking). Perhaps the saddest thing is that modern Indian politicians have also used this division to promote their own ambitions, though it is harmful to the unity of the country.
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talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2005 11:53 pm
The Aryans came toIndia from the north and treated all conquered people with disdain. The situation in Ceylon may be different. The Tamils want to form a separate state and link it to the mainland of India more specifically Southern India. The language is different from Sinhalese. Buddhism spread in India under Ashoka the Great but then it died out in India but remained in Ceylon. That is how Ceylon (the colonial name), or Sri Lanka, the modern name, became Buddhist.
0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2005 11:54 pm
Sorry for hijacking your topic.
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 03:42 am
Re: Thailand's three Muslim-majority provinces
Piffka wrote:
How can this rebellion be justified?

ADNKI International News


Quote:
SOUTHERN THAILAND: ACEH-TYPE PEACE ACCORD COULDN'T WORK SAY ANALYSTS
Bangkok, November 14

...Thailand's three Muslim-majority provinces - Yala, Narathiwat and Pattani - rebels fighting for an Islamic state alongside various criminal formations remain locked in an escalating spiral of violence against the Buddhist Thai government in Bangkok.

<...>
An overwhelming 95 percent of Thailand's 65 million population is Buddhist. Muslims living in Thailand's three southernmost regions make up much of the remainining 5 percent. Inhabitants of Thailand's 'Deep South', as Yala, Narathiwat and Pattani are known, cite religious differences as the basis for their struggle for greater autonomy or even independence from Thailand, though they are also divided by language - speaking the Yawi dialect more similar to Malaysian than to Thai.


It seems to me that living in a Buddhist state would be... could be... so peaceful. Why demand autonomy?


Most of Thailand is peaceful. They are the friendliest people on earth. It's amazing to experience the smiles and friendly dispositions of people who, for the most part, have so little.
0 Replies
 
Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 07:41 am
Hello Wilso, nice to see you here... and thanks for chiming in. I haven't been to Thailand or anywhere in Asia. I'm just interested and thought I'd ask some questions after reading news articles on the internet.

Have you ever been to these southern provinces where the rebellion is going on?
0 Replies
 
Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 07:54 am
talk72000 wrote:
The Aryans came toIndia from the north and treated all conquered people with disdain. The situation in Ceylon may be different. The Tamils want to form a separate state and link it to the mainland of India more specifically Southern India. The language is different from Sinhalese. Buddhism spread in India under Ashoka the Great but then it died out in India but remained in Ceylon. That is how Ceylon (the colonial name), or Sri Lanka, the modern name, became Buddhist.


Except the Tamils in Sri Lanka are mainly Hindus, right? Or are they just of "Dravidian" descent? Please don't feel like you've hijacked the thread, Talk. I'm interested in hearing your viewpoint. Frankly, some parts of the essay by Frawley didn't make much sense to me. All I can know about this is what I read... and I can only read in English. It hamstrings me.

The Tamils had a separate state, prior to Sri Lanka being called Ceylon... back when it was the two kingdoms of Tamils and Sinhalas. At least, that's what I've read. You say that when the Tamils regain their kingdom (if they ever do... but the world seems sometimes to be headed that way), then they'd want to connect with (probably) Tamil Nadu? I didn't realize that Tamil Nadu wanted to separate from the rest of India.

Interestingly, we were talking about Tamil Nadu last night since a friend's family is associated with a Catholic (!) mission there. That mission says they receive no help from the government because of their religion and there is also some (confusing) contention about not being able to adopt out their orphans.
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Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 10:51 am
Jeevan Vasagar in Nairobi
Saturday November 19, 2005
The Guardian


Quote:
Kenyan conservationists reacted with anger yesterday to news that a Thai zoo to which animals are being exported in a controversial deal is planning to serve an exotic game buffet to VIP guests.
Guests at the opening of the Chiang Mai night safari zoo in northern Thailand will tuck in to a menu featuring tiger, lion, elephant and giraffe. Plodprasop Suraswadi, director of the zoo project, told reporters that guests will pay 4,500 baht (£64) each for a meal in which dishes range from locally reared dog meat to lion from Africa.
0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Nov, 2005 01:52 am
I may have given you wrong info as I know more of Indian than Ceylonese history.

Ceylonese historyWebpage Title
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Nov, 2005 02:11 am
Piffka wrote:
Hello Wilso, nice to see you here... and thanks for chiming in. I haven't been to Thailand or anywhere in Asia. I'm just interested and thought I'd ask some questions after reading news articles on the internet.

Have you ever been to these southern provinces where the rebellion is going on?


No, I read about some of it in an English language newspaper when I was in Chiang Mai.

While they are a friendly people, you don't want to get on the wrong side of them. A friend was telling about the reporting of some terrorists/criminals who were hunted down. The front page of the newspaper carried large photo of wild dogs that had been shot (an unusual event in a Buddhist country where life is very respected). On opening to the second page, readers were confronted with photographs of the criminals/terrorists-who had been shot. The message and symbolism was quite clear!
0 Replies
 
Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Nov, 2005 09:10 am
Wilso wrote:
The front page of the newspaper carried large photo of wild dogs that had been shot (an unusual event in a Buddhist country where life is very respected). On opening to the second page, readers were confronted with photographs of the criminals/terrorists-who had been shot. The message and symbolism was quite clear!


I'll say. Well, nobody likes a terrorist, but Buddhists shooting anything is something new to me.

Quote:
Thailand, Malaysia vow to tone down war of words
Tue Nov 22, 2005 Reuters
The flight to northern Malaysia in late August of 131 ethnic-Malay Thai Muslims who said they feared for their safety in Thailand caused a major deterioriation in already strained relations between Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur.

Mainly Muslim Malaysia is concerned about heavy-handed tactics by Thailand's mainly Buddhist security forces to suppress the separatist violence, which has claimed more than 1,000 lives in just under two years.

Conversely, Bangkok feels its southern neighbour could and should do more to stop Malay militants from the Muslim-majority Thai provinces of Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat from taking refuge on Malaysian soil.


So... is he toning down his words because of a change of heart, or is it because he's worried about "the stars?" Bangkok Post:

Quote:
It's Written in the Stars For All To See
Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra should not blame the stars for all the troubles besetting his administration. Addressing a weekly cabinet meeting last week, the prime minister said he was the target of an opposition campaign, which coincided with the alignment of the stars being unfavourable to him.

From now on, he would stop commenting on political or other issues that may cause further misunderstanding or dispute.

It's not hard to see why the prime minister is in such a predicament.

The crisis in the deep South _ already two years old and claiming more innocent lives by the day _ is escalating beyond control.

Teachers at state-run schools recently took to the streets to protest against their impending transfer to local administrative bodies, and the planned listing of Egat Plc on the Stock Exchange of Thailand was stalled by the Supreme Administrative Court, following an emotionally-charged protest by opponents of the government's privatisation of state enterprises.

While we are no experts in astrology, it is clear that the public's confidence in the government is eroding. This is quite shocking because, just a year ago the ruling Thai Rak Thai party (TRT) was brimming with confidence. It romped to a landslide victory in the February 6 general election earlier this year, riding on the crest of the wave of support from rural voters who favoured the TRT's populist policies and its pledge to eradicate poverty.

Those voter expectations have now turned into despair, as the cost of living soars in line with rising world oil prices. Corruption scandals and alleged cronyism in the appointment of top civil servants have also hurt the government's image.

Prime Minister Thaksin himself got on the nerves of everyone by stating that he would give top priority to provinces that voted for his Thai Rak Thai party. Those that did not vote Thai Rak Thai might have to wait just a little bit longer.

Instead of blaming the stars, Prime Minister Thaksin should take a look at himself and try not to repeat the mistakes that he has made. If he doesn't change his attitude, all the planets in the galaxy will not be able to save him.
0 Replies
 
Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Nov, 2005 09:12 am
talk72000 wrote:
I may have given you wrong info as I know more of Indian than Ceylonese history.

Ceylonese historyWebpage Title


Thank you, Talk. I've looked at that website. It seems well-written.

Why do you know more about Indian history?
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