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7 Myths About Islam

 
 
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 04:11 pm
Quote:


I never thought "call a spade a spade" was such a difficult concept. Yet with the onset of liberalism which sparked a rampant, rabid, and foolhardy rush to international/interreligious pluralism among some of the self-styled "intellectuals" - basically trying to excuse any atrocity committed by foreigners and condemn the so-called sins of the United States - has obviously fogged up the simplicity of one of the oldest survival instincts in the world: Recognize an enemy, defend yourself (or at the very least stay out of the way of those trying to defend your sorry, bleeding heart, self).

Why, oh why, Liberals, is common sense so uncommon among you?

http://hnn.us/articles/16536.html
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 1,684 • Replies: 21
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freedom4free
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 05:11 pm
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 05:19 pm
So who the hell is Furnish? On the faculty of Georgia Perimeter College? I'm sure the Islamic Studies department there is quite impressive...
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Lusatian
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 07:44 pm
D'artagnan wrote:
So who the hell is Furnish? On the faculty of Georgia Perimeter College? I'm sure the Islamic Studies department there is quite impressive...


As opposed to yourself. Faculty within the Ivy League? Brown, Princeton, perhaps. Oh, that's right D'artagnan, web pundit extrodinaire.

Freedom4free, while I can understand that you do not agree with the man, but the points you bring to reject him are flimsy at best:

freedom4free wrote:
For example, he begins to cross the line on the fifth where he makes the point that the Crusaders never started the Crusades. He suggests they are actually just responding to an invasion of the Holy Lands. True. But I'm sure it is hoped that one doesn't remember that this invasion took place several hundred years before. Certainly he isn't going to remind you. Nor the fact that since that time, Christians, Muslims and other religious groups have been living peacefully side by side. Well, as peacefully as one can expect members of the Abrahamic faiths to live. I realize that isn't saying much, but......


If you reread the 5th myth, the writer in no place mentions "responding to an invasion of the Holy Land". He does say that that was the first time Europeans got around to taking the fight to the Middle East. If you are disputing that fact then you must rewrite a large portion of history to try to erase Muslim provocation, invasion, and instigation against the European states. (Think Charles Martel, Freedom). Coupled with your absurdly pedantic mention of the Hollywood-esque notion that "Christians and Muslims lived peacefully side by side" (I imagine you must have recently watched 'Kingdom of Heaven'), and I don't think you are in much of a position to try to refute.

freedom4free wrote:


This whole point is obtuse and really kind of funny. Made even more humorous by your mention of the writer committing a non sequitur. I can't tell if you are making a point, or just regurgitating his speech, forgot to include your point and then decided to include a retarded reference to some illogical mathematic counter. Perhaps you should consider rewriting that whole post. Just a thought.

P.S. What's with the "freedom4free" name? You are either trying incredibly hard to be an "anti-patriot" (a bit of an attempt to self-define), or you just foolishly believe that it is internauts like you who keep the war from your shores, the drugs from your neighborhoods, the looters from your disaster zones, the beheading terrorists from your safely blogging self.
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talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 09:18 pm
Geez, all religions are bogus.
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vinsan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 05:51 am
talk72000 wrote:
Geez, all religions are bogus.


Religions convey Peace but paradox is they are the greatest weapons of mankind ....... against each other

Watch Crusades on Discovery Channel this week.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 06:58 am
I thought Timothy Furnish's piece was quite interesting. It seems obvious to me that there are passages within the Koran that exhort people to violence. And as Islam IS the Koran, Islam is or can be violent. But the real problem is that as Furnish says Islam has never had a reformation or been subject to the sort of changes that the Englightenment brought to Christian Europe. Its stuck in a medieval literal world of muslim v non muslim harram v halal, good v bad. No devout muslim ever reads the koran in an allegorical sense it seems to me.

But while it is foolish to deny the links between Islam and violence, it is equally foolish to draw from this the conclusion that Islam causes terrorism. The sort of terrorist outrages we have seen in London and New York are not brought about by excessive reading of the Koran. There are other factors in play as well. In palestine its economic deprivation and oppression of the Palestinians (who are muslims) by the Israelis. In new York it was a reaction against US foreign policy, and in London it was even more specific, revenge for Britain's support in the invasion of Iraq. What I am saying is that religion might give ulitmate justification to the perpetrator of violence (and reward in the hereafter) but it is not itself its root cause. I dont believe for one moment that the muslims are determined to impose sharia law over the whole world, and that we are just seeing a continuation of a clash of religions that started 1400 years ago. What the muslims actually want is just to be left alone in their own countries to run their lives as they want, and in particular they want an end to Western meddling. Again the real reasons for terrorism are much prosaic than religious ideals. We the west have been interferring in the middle east for the last century. We have drawn and re drawn country boundaries, toppled the Ottoman empire, installed shieks and potentates, staged coup d'etats, revolutions, counter revolutions, you name it we've done it....and all because the Muslims are sitting on huge reserves of petroleum...on which we are dependent. That is ultimately whats driving it all and its impossible to understand whats going on in the world today without putting it against that back drop.
0 Replies
 
freedom4free
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 07:56 am
Quote:
But while it is foolish to deny the links between Islam and violence, it is equally foolish to draw from this the conclusion that Islam causes terrorism. The sort of terrorist outrages we have seen in London and New York are not brought about by excessive reading of the Koran. There are other factors in play as well. In palestine its economic deprivation and oppression of the Palestinians (who are muslims) by the Israelis. In new York it was a reaction against US foreign policy, and in London it was even more specific, revenge for Britain's support in the invasion of Iraq. What I am saying is that religion might give ulitmate justification to the perpetrator of violence (and reward in the hereafter) but it is not itself its root cause. I dont believe for one moment that the muslims are determined to impose sharia law over the whole world, and that we are just seeing a continuation of a clash of religions that started 1400 years ago. What the muslims actually want is just to be left alone in their own countries to run their lives as they want, and in particular they want an end to Western meddling. Again the real reasons for terrorism are much prosaic than religious ideals. We the west have been interferring in the middle east for the last century. We have drawn and re drawn country boundaries, toppled the Ottoman empire, installed shieks and potentates, staged coup d'etats, revolutions, counter revolutions, you name it we've done it....and all because the Muslims are sitting on huge reserves of petroleum...on which we are dependent. That is ultimately whats driving it all and its impossible to understand whats going on in the world today without putting it against that back drop.


Wow, a great post, straight down to the point, i completely agree with you Steve, iam really impressed. Very Happy
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 08:55 am
Interesting that the folks rebuilding Iraq have found #6 to be true, however. Restore water and electricity and suddenly the number of insurgent attacks are severely reduced.

I also wonder what conclusions someone could draw about Christianity from studying only the text of the Old and New Testaments.

But don't let me keep you from your hate-fest.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 08:57 am
thanks

i do try sometimes
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 10:42 am
I dont think anyone is indulging in a hate fest DD. Not me anyway. Having said that I dont see why I should have to like any particular religion, or even afford them all equal respect.

Some African peoples still indulge in cannibalism. If thats their religion do I have to afford it the same respect as Islam or Christianity? Or am I allowed to say I find it disgusting?

I think teaching creationism as fact to impressionable young minds is a form of child abuse, and I find that and the religious ideas that surrounds it equally repellent.

Not all religions are the same and not all deserve the same respect in my view.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 10:42 am
damn meant to elaborate on OIL

here ya go

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1636919,00.html?gusrc=rss
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 11:16 am
Lusatian wrote:
D'artagnan wrote:
So who the hell is Furnish? On the faculty of Georgia Perimeter College? I'm sure the Islamic Studies department there is quite impressive...

As opposed to yourself. Faculty within the Ivy League? Brown, Princeton, perhaps. Oh, that's right D'artagnan, web pundit extrodinaire.


No, I'm not on an Ivy League faculty. But I do know the difference between a legitimate source and finding someone/anyone who wrote something I can agree with, even if that person is from an institution I've never heard of.

BTW, your hostility on this thread toward those you don't agree with is palpable...
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 11:21 am
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
I dont think anyone is indulging in a hate fest DD. Not me anyway.

I was referring to Lusatian. He practically froths whenever they're late with his medication.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 11:38 am
DrewDad wrote:
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
I dont think anyone is indulging in a hate fest DD. Not me anyway.

I was referring to Lusatian. He practically froths whenever they're late with his medication.


ok Smile
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 03:38 pm
hmmm interesting post schlock7

you said

"I think you're being somewhat naive to believe they will stop terrorism if we simply get out of their country."

....but of course that's not going to happen is it? Not while they are sitting on the oil and gas we need.
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 03:58 pm
Communists wanted to take over the world too, but they were successfully contained and then converted.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 04:00 pm
into what?
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 04:06 pm
Mobsters.
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freedom4free
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 04:13 pm
The Power of Nightmares: Baby It's Cold Outside

Quote:
Should we be worried about the threat from organised terrorism or is it simply a phantom menace being used to stop society from falling apart?

In the past our politicians offered us dreams of a better world. Now they promise to protect us from nightmares.

The most frightening of these is the threat of an international terror network. But just as the dreams were not true, neither are these nightmares.

In a new series, the Power of Nightmares explores how the idea that we are threatened by a hidden and organised terrorist network is an illusion.

It is a myth that has spread unquestioned through politics, the security services and the international media.

At the heart of the story are two groups: the American neo-conservatives and the radical Islamists.

Both were idealists who were born out of the failure of the liberal dream to build a better world.

These two groups have changed the world but not in the way either intended.

Together they created today's nightmare vision of an organised terror network.

A fantasy that politicians then found restored their power and authority in a disillusioned age. Those with the darkest fears became the most powerful.

The rise of the politics of fear begins in 1949 with two men whose radical ideas would inspire the attack of 9/11 and influence the neo-conservative movement that dominates Washington.

Both these men believed that modern liberal freedoms were eroding the bonds that held society together.

The two movements they inspired set out, in their different ways, to rescue their societies from this decay. But in an age of growing disillusion with politics, the neo-conservatives turned to fear in order to pursue their vision.

They would create a hidden network of evil run by the Soviet Union that only they could see.

The Islamists were faced by the refusal of the masses to follow their dream and began to turn to terror to force the people to "see the truth"'.


THE POWER OF NIGHTMARES
Three part series

I: Baby It's Cold Outside
II: The Phantom Victory
III: The Shadows In The Cave

BBC News
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