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Remember remember the 5th of November...

 
 
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 09:25 am
Gunpowder, treason and plot

http://www.guardian.co.uk/flash/0,5860,1605605,00.html
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 09:37 am
Penny for the Old Guy, gov'ner?
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 09:40 am
Some people of course take it a bit more seriously:-

We of the Cliffe Bonfire Society hold our celebrations of remembrance in light hearted vein, but do not allow this to distract us from the fundamental reasons for our celebrations. By our activities on the 'Fifth', we desire to remind people of the religious antagonisms of a bygone age and in particular, to spotlight specific events which were the outcome.
By our bonfires and our seventeen blazing crosses we recall to mind the fires that burnt to death the Protestant Martyrs outside the Star Inn, Lewes, during the Marian Persecutions of the 16th century, fires that burned into people's hearts a hatred of tyranny which has ensured for us our freedom of thought and conscience. We are reminded too of the Elizabethan beacon fires of just over four hundred years ago
For swift to east and swift to west
the ghastly war-flame spread,
High on St Michael's Mount it shone;
it shone on Beachy Head.
Far on the deep the Spaniard saw,
along each southern shire,
Cape beyond Cape in endless range,
those twinkling points of fire.
calling England to withstand the Spanish Armada bearing officers and instruments of the'Holy Inquisition'.
And by 'The Fifth' we remember the discovery on 5th November 1605 of the Jesuit-inspired Gunpowder Plot to destroy England's Protestant King and Parliament. No less important, the landing at Brixham on 5th November 1688 of William, Prince of Orange, who gave England freedom of worship for Anglican and Non-Conformists alike and established the roots of that British tradition of tolerance and understanding which sets an example to all nations.
Ours is not a spirit of intolerance (except of tyranny), but rather of gratitude and remembrance. Of gratitude to those brave men and women who gave their lives in the fight for our freedom. Of remembrance of that alien political system which has ever been England's bitterest foe and of which the Book of Common Prayer says:
'The Bishop of Rome hath no jurisdiction in this realm of England'
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 04:57 pm
LOL! We had to ban it, cos it kept starting bush fires, Guy Fawkes' Night, I mean.

Australians can't be trusted with small bombs, it seems...prolly why we don't have nukes.

I mean, if you bugger up Guy Fawkes' Night, it doesn't look good, does it?
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 06:28 pm
Alright, can the crapola Mr. This Sceptered Isle, does i get me penny, er don't i?
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goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 03:48 am
Gawd I remember doing that as a kid Set - until I read your post I had forgotten about it completely.

Steve - I think the Gordon Riots should be enacted every year just to give the Papists a bit of a hurry up. Westminster Cathedral can be burned in effigy. Just think of it as another tourist attraction. Cool
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 05:10 am
They had bonfires in New Brunswick or Newfoundland which got out of hand (yet again)--I disremember which--heard it on the CBC . . .
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 05:11 am
Ever read Barnaby Rudge? It's Charles Dickens does the Gordon riots . . . wonderful stuff--that boy could write a pot-boiler like nobody's business . . .
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 08:25 am
Do you get your penny young man? Why you ask so nicely how could I refuse?

Last night was like a war zone round here. Huge explosions every few seconds. Whole house seemed to shake. Didnt go out to throw bombs myself, having bad shoulder right now, but was lying in bed between BANGS (so to speak) when I thought this is ridiculous. Fireworks were never that loud when I was a kid. Have they got bigger/louder?

Whilst I'm all for burning effagies of former popes (! its only a bit of fun...) I do think they will have to curb or eliminate fireworks. The animals were terrified. As indeed were many catholics.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 09:27 am
A penny loaf to feed the Pope.
A farthing o' cheese to choke him.
A pint of beer to rinse it down.
A faggot of sticks to burn him.
Burn him in a tub of tar.
Burn him like a blazing star.
Burn his body from his head.
Then we'll say ol' Pope is dead.
Hip hip hoorah!
Hip hip hoorah!
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 02:37 pm
Setanta wrote:
Ever read Barnaby Rudge? It's Charles Dickens does the Gordon riots . . . wonderful stuff--that boy could write a pot-boiler like nobody's business . . .


Here's a thing...Barnaby Rudge and Edwin Drood are, I think, the only two Dickens novels I have not managed to get through.

You tell me BR is worth it?
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 02:40 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
A penny loaf to feed the Pope.
A farthing o' cheese to choke him.
A pint of beer to rinse it down.
A faggot of sticks to burn him.
Burn him in a tub of tar.
Burn him like a blazing star.
Burn his body from his head.
Then we'll say ol' Pope is dead.
Hip hip hoorah!
Hip hip hoorah!


i never knew you cared walter (!)
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 02:42 pm
I enjoyed it, but most people find my fascination with Dickens odd, to put it politely. The Mystery of Edwin Drood is a book which you will never "get through"--he died while writing it, and it is an unfinished novel. I thought i could take it, but it had just gotten to be an absorbing mystery when it ended, and i was very, very frustrated.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 02:47 pm
set

appreciate your scholarship

give me ten books to read

promise I will do so

Smile

not that I have read less than ten, you understand. just want to brush up on my literarcy skills.
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Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 02:53 pm
Barnaby Rudge is a good read. I'm saving Edwin Drood for my deathbed. If I can time my reading properly....
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 02:53 pm
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

i never knew you cared walter (!)


a) I don't tell you everything
b) that was - I suppose - not only (one of) the "poem(s)" I had to learn in English classes at school, but obviously one that I remembered for longest.
c) since I lived for some time surrounded by the Britsih officer's and serbant's mass, the residental accomodations of two regimental commanders and some dozens of houses for servicemen ...

(I never burnt effigies myself, though.)
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 02:58 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:

(I never burnt effigies myself, though.)


pleased to hear that.







I am just hearing for about the 4th night in the row, bangs fireworks and general mayhem......and I think you continentals have something to do with it
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 03:01 pm
Normally, I would blame Bush, but in this case: it's reasoned in China.
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 03:02 pm
Not to throw any water on all these delighful bonfires and fireworks, folks, but I hope you realize that the celebration of Guy Fawkes Day predates Guy Fawkes himself by a millenium or two. It's all part of the ancient Celtic festival of Samhain, which also includes our present-day Halloween. All the traditions -- bonfires, torches, mummery, begging at the landlord's door -- were fully in place long before the Gunpowder Plot. It all has to do with "the dark time of the year." The hapless Guy only gave the people a brand new reason for intensifying the jolly-making and, over time, the origin of the orgy was forgotten.
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 03:07 pm
Weird Words: Guy Fawkes night
-------------------------------------------------------------------
An annual British celebration on 5 November.

In itself, there's nothing uncommon or weird about this expression,
though it will not be so familiar to people outside Britain and the
Commonwealth. The festive day is also often called "bonfire night"
or "firework night". This year's celebration is special, however,
since 5 November 2005 is the 400th anniversary of the attempt by
Guy Fawkes and his fellow conspirators - as a Catholic protest
against the policies of the Protestant king, James I - to blow up
the Houses of Parliament and with it the king and peers who were
assembled for the state opening of Parliament.

For various reasons, this rather inept conspiracy became famous, in
part because of one-time strong anti-Catholic sentiment (the famous
celebrations in Lewes each year still burn the Pope in effigy). The
link of bonfires with the plot began the day it was discovered, as
Londoners were encouraged to light fires in the street to celebrate
the king's deliverance, provided that "this testemonye of joy be
carefull done without any danger or disorder". Fireworks became
associated with it in the 1650s. Guy Fawkes wasn't the ringleader,
but he became most deeply linked with the plot in the public mind
because he was discovered on the scene, having been deputed to
light the fuse.

The plot is also commemorated in the rhyme:

Remember, remember the fifth of November:
Gunpowder, treason, and plot.
We know no reason
Why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot!

Most famously, it also bequeathed us "guy". At first this meant the
effigy of Guy Fawkes traditionally burnt on the bonfire (children
once constructed guys and begged money with them for fireworks with
the cry "a penny for the guy!"). But it's also where "guy" in the
sense of a person comes from - it was originally applied to a man
of grotesque appearance, like a bonfire effigy, but when it was
taken to the US in the late nineteenth century it turned into a
neutral term for a man, more recently a person of either sex. It
was also used for a person who acted as a dupe in a confidence game
and led to the verb "to guy", to ridicule or hoax.

World Wide Words is copyright (c) Michael Quinion 2005. All rights
reserved. The Words Web site is at http://www.worldwidewords.org
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