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Spain orders arrest of US troops

 
 
Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2005 12:23 pm
From the BBC News......

"A Spanish judge has issued an international arrest order for three US soldiers over the shelling of a Baghdad hotel that killed a cameraman.
Judge Santiago Pedraz issued the warrant for Sgt Shawn Gibson, Capt Philip Wolford and Lt Col Philip de Camp, of the US 3rd Infantry Division.

Jose Couso, of Spanish TV network Telecinco, died in April 2003 when a US tank fired on the Palestine Hotel.

Reuters news agency cameraman Taras Protsyuk, a Ukrainian, was also killed.

The National Court agreed to consider filing criminal charges against three members of the tank crew two years ago, acting on a request from Mr Couso's family.

'No co-operation'

Speaking on Wednesday, the judge said he had issued the arrest order because of a lack of judicial co-operation from the US in the case.

The family of Mr Couso said they were delighted at the news, and that they now hoped justice would be done.

US officials say the tank crew believed they were being shot at when they opened fire, although TV footage of the incident did not record any incoming fire.

The incident was witnessed on TV around the world on the day before the fall of the regime of Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, as the Palestine was the base for almost all the foreign media crews in Baghdad.

Earlier on the same day, a correspondent for the Arabic TV broadcaster al-Jazeera was killed when US missiles hit the network's office in Baghdad.

Following the incident, then-US Secretary of State Colin Powell said a US review of the incident had found the use of force was justified."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4357684.stm
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 759 • Replies: 13
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ossobuco
 
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Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2005 02:41 pm
listening...
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Brandon9000
 
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Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2005 03:04 pm
In every war that has even been fought, soldiers, even those with the best of intentions, have killed non-combatants by accident while shooting at combatants. It's merely childish to try and put them through a civilian trial for not surgically striking only the enemy, which isn't even possible. Why not blame the Iraqi soldiers who located themselves in a residential building and started shooting at our guys. If our soldiers are criminally guilty, millions and millions of soldiers from every prior 20th century war are too.
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DrewDad
 
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Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2005 03:15 pm
It puts pressure on the US in a number of ways. First is public opinion. Second is giving the Bush administration the choice of knuckling under to foreign pressure, or openly defying international courts.
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goodfielder
 
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Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2005 06:36 pm
But what about jurisdiction? Is Spain now also claiming extraterritorial jurisdiction? I know the US and some other countries claim it and I disagree with the idea regardless of which country is making the claim.

If these soldiers deliberately fired at those journalists they should of course be tried but the US has already indicated that they have been cleared of any wrongdoing so it's all a bit moot.
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2005 09:42 pm
goodfielder wrote:
Is Spain now also claiming extraterritorial jurisdiction?


"Spanish prosecutors are expected to appeal Pedraz's decision on Thursday on the grounds that Pedraz lacked jurisdiction to seek extradition of the soldiers."

El Mundo

Reuters
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goodfielder
 
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Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2005 02:08 am
Thank you for that extra information Walter.
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yankeecat
 
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Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 06:47 pm
First, the quickcapitulators should prosecute the members of the Azul division of spanish nazi's.
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goodfielder
 
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Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 03:42 am
yankeecat wrote:
First, the quickcapitulators should prosecute the members of the Azul division of spanish nazi's.


I know nothing about that yankeecat but would appreciate the chance to know something about this.
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 06:34 am
The División Azul ('Blue Divison), officially in German "250. Infanterie-Division", was a unit of Spanish volunteers that served on the German side of the Second World War, mainly on the Eastern Front.

A total of about 47.000 Spanish officers and men served in the east.

Blue Divison (via wiki)

250. Infanterie-Division (División Azul) via 'Axis Factbook

Spain did not conduct a formal reconciliation process after the dictatorship ended in 1975. Former fascists have maintained their roles in public life. Thus, two former members of this divison e.g. could take part in the national day parade [in 2004, I've no reports about this year's].
(This had outraged leftwing politicians who feel Spain has not done enough to compensate victims of General Franco's dictatorship. But the Spanish defence minister José Bono[from the Spanish Workers' Socialist Party (PSOE)] said then: "I'm not going to give anyone a hard time for what they did 60 years ago. It's far more important that we celebrate the fact that Spain is at peace today." Source
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goodfielder
 
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Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 06:49 am
Thank you for that information Walter, it's much appreciated.

But I'm with Sr. Bono - let it go. autre temps, autre mores.
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Setanta
 
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Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 06:56 am
Walter, a friend of mine had a book on the Spanish Facists who fought in the Soviet Union, complete with rosters and detailed maps on their operations--i did look into the book, but we parted company before i had the opportunity to borrow it from him. If i recall correctly, they fought in the northern army group, between Leningrad and Moscow.

In an ironic moment, Spanish republicans fought on the western front--there were Spanish republicans in Le Clerc's French Second armored division, and they were among the first troops to enter Paris. One of our erstwhile members provided some good info on that in a thread about the 60th anniversary of the liberation of Paris.
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 07:11 am
I recently did some translations from German sources for a friend of a friend in England [and 'dug some out' :wink: ], who writes his doctor thesis about the Blue Division.

If I remember correctly, you are totally right.
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yankeecat
 
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Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 06:55 pm
Spanish collaboration with the Nazis during WWII
For those of you who don't know it, there were 40,000 spaniards fighting with the Nazi's in Russia during WWII known as the the Blue Division. None of them have ever been tried or punished. How odd that a nation which was facist for so long so recently, which while supposedly neutral in WWII was actually a Nazi ally occupies itself with attempts to try U.S. servicemen.

Methinks the they protesteth too much.
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