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The children of the French welfare state

 
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Sep, 2005 08:09 pm
nimh wrote:
True, JW, a scandal that was.

What point that is supposed to make about the advantage or disadvantage of the welfare state, I'm not sure.

The French heat wave, the New Orleans hurricane: both revealed the existence of large strata of vulnerable people whom the country failed to save in an emergency.

In the case of New Orleans, those included the most impoverished of the country.

In the case of France, they included the elderly. Whether those were poor or not, or what their living standards were in non-emergency situations, however, the story doesn't really say one way or another.

The heatwave story is fodder for criticism of an apparently failing health care system. Even more so for criticism of lacking family responsibility: where were their children?

In fact, the French policies I quoted in this thread can be said to actually be a response to the catastrophe you describe. Something to praise rather than deride, in its context?

I dont see, on the other hand, how the massive death of thousands of elderly in a heatwave shows that there is too much investment in the social policies of a welfare state.

In fact, I cant really discern what argument you are making (or the newspaper article, going on your excerpt), beyond a nya-nyah, you-too kind of thing.

"They should look at themselves" remains one of the weakest retorts in the face of criticism.


I wasn't trying to make an argument other than to wonder how Diane can praise the French welfare system ("at least they can provide decent living conditions"). I'm sure you're aware that there are plenty of unbearably hot climates in the U.S. (New Orleans mid-Summer is certainly one of them), but as far as I know, we haven't allowed 15,000+ citizens to die from it. All of the hurricanes of past decades combined wouldn't account for that number of deaths here in the U.S.

Perhaps the point wasn't so much advantage/disadvantage of the welfare state as you infer. In my opinion, Europe in general (and France in particular), serves as a good example of a bad example. Liberalism runs unchecked in Europe for the most part and what the liberals want to do here has already been done in Europe. There's no need to guess about the results of liberal policies concerning welfare, etc. All we have to do is take a good long look at Europe. When we do, we'll be extremely careful what we wish for.
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arji
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Oct, 2005 05:07 pm
JustWonders wrote:

Liberalism runs unchecked in Europe for the most part


can you elaborate on that?

it is PRESENT tense, mais non?
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nimh
 
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Reply Sun 16 Oct, 2005 08:56 am
I actually agree with JW that liberalism nowadays seems to run unchecked in Europe, but thats mostly because we use opposite definitions of what "liberalism" means ;-)
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Sun 16 Oct, 2005 09:00 am
Hmm, and "libertarianism is Marxism of the Right" as Robert Locke says. :wink:
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JustWonders
 
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Reply Sun 16 Oct, 2005 08:01 pm
nimh wrote:
I actually agree with JW that liberalism nowadays seems to run unchecked in Europe, but thats mostly because we use opposite definitions of what "liberalism" means ;-)


Nimh - I'm sure you'll agree that it's beneficial to no one for us to get into a discussion on "definitions". Suffice it to say that you're clueless when it comes to me and my views - much as I am clueless about you and yours. For the record, though, I don't believe that all liberals are Democrats, nor that all Democrats are liberal and even entertain the idea once in a great while that there are a few liberals in my party. (Very few Smile)

<I would, however, venture a guess that you're closest to the Green Left ... that's the party most associated with socialism and pacifism, no?>
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