Organized Religion is a joke

Momma Angel wrote:

It IS NOT God's job that we should all fail! God wants us to do the right things and to be with Him always. He's not sitting up there in heaven poking pins in voodoo dolls. He gave us a free will to make our decisions.

Read a bit closer. I said that it's God's job to condemn should christians fail to convert someone.

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Questioner wrote:

Momma Angel wrote:
It IS NOT God's job that we should all fail! God wants us to do the right things and to be with Him always. He's not sitting up there in heaven poking pins in voodoo dolls. He gave us a free will to make our decisions.

Read a bit closer. I said that it's God's job to condemn should christians fail to convert someone.

Questioner,

You are so right. I am sorry. I just got up and I am still trying to shake off a migraine. I really apologize for misreading that.

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Momma Angel wrote:

It's ok to have differences in religious views. It's not okay to attack others verbally, physically, etc., because of those differences.

hmmm ok, so you agree that it wasnt ok to carry out the inquisition, the crusades, the cathocalypse of latin america, the wiping of of natives in north america and Oz, to fight all over the world as the turks and muslims did, - basically you do agree that its not ok to kill or convert others by the sword, just cos he believes in a different religion???

good.

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brahmin wrote:

Momma Angel wrote:
It's ok to have differences in religious views. It's not okay to attack others verbally, physically, etc., because of those differences.

hmmm ok, so you agree that it wasnt ok to carry out the inquisition, the crusades, the cathocalypse of latin america, the wiping of of natives in north america and Oz, to fight all over the world as the turks and muslims did, - basically you do agree that its not ok to kill or convert others by the sword, just cos he believes in a different religion???

good.

Duh? Isn't that what I just said?

If I tell someone about Christ and they don't believe like I do, I sure am not going to pick up a sword and kill them.

Oh, brahmin, I can see it coming. You are going to tell me that God did that kind of thing in the Old Testament and now I say it's not okay to do it so I must disgree with God right? Please, don't bother. You know very well how I feel about this.

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Momma Angel wrote:

brahmin wrote:
Momma Angel wrote:
It's ok to have differences in religious views. It's not okay to attack others verbally, physically, etc., because of those differences.

hmmm ok, so you agree that it wasnt ok to carry out the inquisition, the crusades, the cathocalypse of latin america, the wiping of of natives in north america and Oz, to fight all over the world as the turks and muslims did, - basically you do agree that its not ok to kill or convert others by the sword, just cos he believes in a different religion???

good.

Duh? Isn't that what I just said?

yes you did. i just clarified it and ended with 'good".

what was wrong in that.

ma wrote:

If I tell someone about Christ and they don't believe like I do, I sure am not going to pick up a sword and kill them.

congrats. at least you are better than charlemange and the inquisitioners and the crusaders.

ma wrote:

Oh, brahmin, I can see it coming. You are going to tell me that God did that kind of thing in the Old Testament and now I say it's not okay to do it so I must disgree with God right? Please, don't bother. You know very well how I feel about this.

no i am not going to tell you - how the hell do you know what i am going to tell you?? who's doing the assuming here?

i havent the foggiest idea how you feel about this and i dont care either.

just stop trying to put words into my mouth.

i never said you disagreed with anything - except plain logic (in the other thread)

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@ebrown p,

yes, i would prefer disorganized religion

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@CarbonSystem,

How did you find this five year old thread?

(It is organized Atheism that makes me uncomfortable.)

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I don't belong to any organised religion, but I don't think a blanket statement of 'oragnised religion is a joke' can be made by any person with even a modicum of objectivity.

OR provides :

A place where like minded people can meet
A place to meet the opposite sex
A place to sing
A place that organises social events / activities

Charity services
Foreign Aid services

Education and Health facilities

A political voice for their members

A cultural/values link between countries

I'm sure there's other things I haven't thought of off the top of my head, just as a number of those things I mentioned have negatives as well as positives. But a blanket statement that includes all the above as being a joke is just plain silly.

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Ah, Momma Angel...

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god = universe = love

i feel god isn't a single person

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@ebrown p,

Quote:

How did you find this five year old thread?

Ha, funny story, I remembered a2k existed basically, since I now find myself at a desk and computer for work.

And of course since this thread was started by me my views have changed considerably, though a few things are the same.

'Sunday church christianity reminds me of a cult' would be more likely the title nowadays. Although christian people who attend church are just people with faith like anyeone else, the leaders and their million dollar marquee signs are getting very annoying. And youth leaders! Some of them are just obnoxious.

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@CarbonSystem,

You have to admit, that's an impressive Marquee sign.

And what about the Marquee signs of world cities? Dubai's palm island, Sydneys opera house, London's Big Ben, Paris' Eiffel Tower, etc?

Or the Marquee signs of countries - Egypts Pyramids, America's Four Presidents, China's 3 Gorges Dam etc?

Or the Marquee signs at the front of Amusement Parks, or Sporting Stadiums, or Businesses, or....any number of things really?

As for youth leaders in churches being obnoxious (obviously inaccurate as a blanket statement)...so are many leaders in any number of fields.

I mean, if you're going to present those two objections as being reasons you dislike organised religion, it will mean there are many other organisations you don't like either, as well as many other 'marquee symbols'.

I don't know how I find myself defending religion - god knows it has enough failings, but I find many of those that criticise it are almost as, or just as one-eyed as the religions they detest for being one-eyed.

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@vikorr,

By the way, why is that symbol posing in a very similar position to that which elite athletes often make when they win someone like a Tennis Major, or an Olympic gold medal?

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@vikorr,

vikorr wrote:

You have to admit, that's an impressive Marquee sign.

And what about the Marquee signs of world cities? Dubai's palm island, Sydneys opera house, London's Big Ben, Paris' Eiffel Tower, etc?

Or the Marquee signs of countries - Egypts Pyramids, America's Four Presidents, China's 3 Gorges Dam etc?

Or the Marquee signs at the front of Amusement Parks, or Sporting Stadiums, or Businesses, or....any number of things really?

As for youth leaders in churches being obnoxious (obviously inaccurate as a blanket statement)...so are many leaders in any number of fields.

I mean, if you're going to present those two objections as being reasons you dislike organised religion, it will mean there are many other organisations you don't like either, as well as many other 'marquee symbols'.

I don't know how I find myself defending religion - god knows it has enough failings, but I find many of those that criticise it are almost as, or just as one-eyed as the religions they detest for being one-eyed.

It's very impressive, and hilarious, especially when driving through the most boring state to drive through, at least in the midwest, Ohio.

As for dubai, the artificial islands are ridiculous. But the sidney opera house and most any other awesome achievement of architecture are beautiful and I'm happy they exist.

I don't like churches having extravagant marquees because of the nature of the building. It's supposed to be a place of positive thoughts, sacredness, prayers, etc. Having a 2,000 LED screen in front with weather updates is absurd. It kills the whole feel of something timeless and sacred.

McDonald's and other businesses may have awesome signs, but they're for profit corporations who don't claim god as the reason for their building to exist. They're there to make money.

And so, it starts to become clear where the donations people give on sunday go. I know all about the pressures many church-goers face. Most will happily donate $20 on sunday. But instead of using that money to further the faith, they do it to bring more donating congregates in, to make them members.

It just seems to make church a corporate thing to me.

Like mall churches. Have you ever been to one as big as a mall? We have a couple in southeast MI and it's very wierd attending. You just know the man in the robe is driving a mercedes.

I must say however: my views on religion have changed dramatically since I posted this thread however long ago. I still resent parts of most every religion for misuse of the most sacred and fragile human element, which is faith.

I just love the touchdown jesus though, a few minutes in photoshop woudl be priceless.

1 Reply

@CarbonSystem,

Now see...that's the sort of legitimate objection to organised religion people who be saying more often Smile

One of the points I was making about marquee signs though, is that they are hardly a bad thing in and of themselves - that statue is actually quite beautiful, if wierd...it's when people ascribe emotions etc to them that they become something else, and people start finding them objectionable...but it's just a piece of shaped rock /masonite /whatever.

As to your point about tithes/offerings etc - I would point out though that is hardly something you can object to - if people wish to give, that's their business. If you don't wish to give, that's your business. I haven't seen one yet that it's left destitute (though of course, I could maybe be looking in the wrong places)

1 Reply

@vikorr,

vikorr wrote:

As to your point about tithes/offerings etc - I would point out though that is hardly something you can object to - if people wish to give, that's their business. If you don't wish to give, that's your business. I haven't seen one yet that it's left destitute (though of course, I could maybe be looking in the wrong places)

Willing to give is one thing; but I know first hand that people giving their monies to the church don't do it out of willingness, it's something more life fear. Fear of rejection by church members, those who are involved in church programs, etc. This doesn't all lay at fault on the man preaching of course, but some of it does. The rest of it is the people of the church applying the pressure, and guilt.

In my own life, I prefer to give money and other things directly. That way I know where the help is going. Directly affecting people's lives I suppose. Volunteering time is often far more valuable than money offerings, since the money can easily disapper, even with good intentions.

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@CarbonSystem,

Example: Glossy full photo brochures to promote church events instead of cost-effective, matte finish single color.

I've seen both. Just an example.

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@CarbonSystem,

Again, they are the sort of valid objections I would like to hear more people voice Smile

You are right - there is some fear involved in giving offerings etc to the church...there's also a lot of free will involved. It's a difficult subject to talk generics because people give for many differing reasons.

As to the glossy pamphlet - churches do say that offerings etc aren't purely to help others, but also for the running costs etc of the church, which can include advertisement of when things are happening - I realise the point you were trying to make, though that was perhaps not the best example.

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@CarbonSystem,

I am coming late on this conversation so I hope I am not speaking out of turn here.

I guess there probably are people that give out of fear but it seems nowadays more people are giving because they think they are going to get back for what they give. This "seed" money that the charismatics are always preaching about is a bunch of bunk.

The Bible says God loves a cheerful giver. We are not to give out of fear nor are we to give out of expecting something back. Unfortunately, this concept has become twisted like so many others.

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@CarbonSystem,

CarbonSystem wrote:

Quote:
How did you find this five year old thread?

Ha, funny story, I remembered a2k existed basically, since I now find myself at a desk and computer for work.

And of course since this thread was started by me my views have changed considerably, though a few things are the same.

'Sunday church christianity reminds me of a cult' would be more likely the title nowadays. Although christian people who attend church are just people with faith like anyeone else, the leaders and their million dollar marquee signs are getting very annoying. And youth leaders! Some of them are just obnoxious.

HEY!
Where was this picture taken?

I'm having a flashback, seriously, of when I lived in Florida.
I could swear that picture was taken in Pompano Beach.
Anybody know?

1 Reply

Organized Religion is a joke

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