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Post-war Iraq

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
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Reply Mon 21 Apr, 2003 08:03 pm
Walter, The more interesting aspect of this freedom for the Iraqi's is that they want the coalition forces to leave. It's sort of funny to see the liberated Iraqi's telling the US and UK to leave Iraq. c.i.
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dafdaf
 
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Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2003 09:21 am
c.i.'s got a very very good point. For those that support(ed) the war: does it not give you a moment's hesitation that the populations of the countries of the world were against the war, that the governments of most were, that the UN has always been, and that the Iraqi citizens themselves don't want the coalition there?
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dafdaf
 
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Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2003 10:59 am
Just want to draw people's attentions to the poll here as well. Looks like the large majority (which may include the pro-war side?) is in favour of giving Iraq the power to choose it's own government.

Also interesting to those who would have you believe that the anti-war side supports Saddam, is that not a single person voted to keep Saddam's council.

Daf
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Ethel2
 
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Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2003 11:05 am
wrong thread, sorry folks
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steissd
 
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Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2003 11:23 am
Giving self-governing rights to Iraqis now is even worse than keeping Saddam at power. This means doing all this military work for Iran's sake. It will take not more than a month to establish the terrorist Shiite Islamic Republic. Transitional government is essential, and the U.S. military bases in Iraq that will secure the future secular government are of vital importance. I believe that Mr. Bush also realizes this.
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cicerone imposter
 
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Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2003 12:07 pm
steissd, It's fine that Bush realizes the necessity for a secular government in Iraq, but what ever happened to the promises made to Afghanistan and Pakistan? c.i.
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steissd
 
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Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2003 12:17 pm
Afghanistan has lower geostrategic value than Iraq (not only because it has no oil, but for several other reasons that are beyond the topic discussed). Pakistan may be kept under control without applying any direct military pressure: it has long-term conflict with India, so good relationships with the USA are crucial for survival of this nation.
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fbaezer
 
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Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2003 12:17 pm
From The New York Post:

"FOUR sticky-fingered GIs have been arrested for trying to steal nearly $1 million of the $700 million in cold cash found hidden on the grounds of several estates in Baghdad, Army officials said yesterday.

The four enlisted men, who all belong to the 4th Battalion of the 64th Armored Division, face court-martials, said Maj. Kent Rideout.

The mountain of loot uncovered by U.S. forces on Friday apparently was left behind by top Ba'ath Party members and senior Republican Guard commanders who fled Baghdad.

It has been taken to the U.S.-controlled Baghdad Airport for safekeeping and will be returned to the Iraqi people, officials have said. "
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Tartarin
 
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Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2003 01:44 pm
I dunno, Fbaezer, perhaps the four sticky-fingered GI's have a somewhat better case for taking it than those "safekeeper" officials at US controlled Baghdad Airport! Who do you suppose will really wind up with the goods?
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cicerone imposter
 
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Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2003 02:06 pm
It belongs to the Iraqi people, but who and how it's used is a whole new ball of wax. c.i.
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PDiddie
 
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Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2003 06:35 pm
http://workingforchange.speedera.net/www.workingforchange.com/webgraphics/wfc/TMW04-23-03.gif
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cicerone imposter
 
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Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2003 06:52 pm
PDid, Very good! The Iraqi people gets more freedoms, while ours continue to shrink for fear of terrorism/terrorists. Smile c.i.
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Tartarin
 
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Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2003 07:54 pm
That's terrific, PDiddie! Dead on.
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sozobe
 
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Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2003 08:18 pm
Laughing Laughing Laughing

No, wait...

Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad

Evil or Very Mad
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roger
 
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Reply Tue 22 Apr, 2003 08:49 pm
Not bad.
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dafdaf
 
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Reply Wed 23 Apr, 2003 07:12 am
Perhaps Iraq and Afghanistan were test centers? To find out how to run social services and elections before applying it back home?

*hides*
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cicerone imposter
 
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Reply Wed 23 Apr, 2003 11:29 am
Even that seems to have failed. Both Afghanistan and Iraq are doomed to failure, because the people who planned the wars are not skilled at post war resolutions. I think a 12 year old kid can win the wars with what the US and UK has in military armament. The problems stem from the politicoes having very little knowledge about how to handle the post war choas. c.i.
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Tartarin
 
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Reply Wed 23 Apr, 2003 02:38 pm
Quote:
Our Man in Iraq: Hero or Crook?
by Joe Conason
www.observer.com 4/23/03

Whether the physical demise of Saddam Hussein has been achieved or not, his political destruction is nearly complete. Once the United States committed military force against him, Saddam's eventual defeat was never in doubt. But what follows in the wake of his unlamented dictatorship will determine the success of the war that ousted him.

For advocates of the war, the justification for this enormous expenditure of blood and treasure is the liberation of the Iraqi people and the establishment of democracy as a light unto the Arab world. And now those of us who opposed the war must hope that project succeeds?-or at least avoids disastrous failure. If we are perceived as imperialists who have installed a puppet regime, then the true victors will be the propagandists of Al Qaeda.

Unfortunately, signs are emerging that a puppet regime may be exactly what the war's intellectual authors have planned. The most troubling indication was the U.S. airlift into Nasiriya's smoking ruins of a gentleman named Ahmed Chalabi.

If that name isn't familiar yet, it will be. Although his recent return to his homeland is the first time he has set foot there since 1958, Mr. Chalabi is the dominant leader of the exile movement known as the Iraqi National Congress. Among his admirers in Washington?-where he has long been a favorite of the neoconservative right?-he is regarded as brilliant, selfless and courageous. Senator Joseph Lieberman has called him "a person of strength, principle and real national commitment." His friend Richard Perle, the influential Defense Department adviser, notes that Mr. Chalabi, a very wealthy man with an American education and British citizenship, "could have lived comfortably without spending a day on the effort to liberate Iraq."

That last remark is surely true. Just how Mr. Chalabi came to be fixed so comfortably remains a matter of grave concern in neighboring Jordan. Eleven years ago this week, he was convicted in absentia on more than 30 counts of embezzlement, theft and fraud after the mysterious crash of Petra Bank, a large financial institution he founded and ran in Amman. (In some profiles, this episode is described discreetly as his "controversial past.") By the time he fled, Jordan's central bankers were trying to uncover what had happened to about $300 million in missing deposits.

According to Mr. Chalabi and his defenders, the government of the late King Hussein framed him at Saddam's behest. Since he may well get his hands on his native land's vast oil wealth someday, let's hope he is indeed innocent. The problem is that many informed observers suspect otherwise.

Among the doubters is the impeccably conservative journalist Arnaud de Borchgrave, author of a thoroughly unflattering Chalabi profile for the Washington Times last December. Quoted in that article is the "widely respected" former governor of the Jordanian central bank, who said that after a full examination of Petra's books, he concluded that "they had been cooked and that Ahmed Chalabi was the master cook …. Chalabi was one of the most notorious crooks in the history of the Middle East."

Not the best endorsement for the would-be Iraqi savior, but an all-too-typical description of past and present leaders in that region. If Mr. Chalabi is indeed guilty as charged, his ascent would continue a tradition that includes the late Shah of Iran and the greedy criminals who rule various emirates and monarchies in the Gulf region. Plus ça change, as the despised French might mutter.

Aside from all those musty details, Mr. Chalabi's critics in the C.I.A., the State Department?-and other groups who have shed blood fighting Saddam Hussein?-wonder how a figure with no visibility or known support among the Iraqi people is qualified to lead them. Among his pronouncements from exile, he has said that he would extend diplomatic recognition to Israel, a laudable idea that probably has very little support among the Iraqi public.

Apparently, Mr. Chalabi believes he will be best served by a long U.S. military occupation of his country. He told the CBS program 60 Minutes that he expects our troops to stay for two years. That is a dangerous notion, not only for American and British soldiers, but also for the stability of the Gulf region.

Meanwhile, at his Belfast summit, President Bush denied that the United States is seeking to install Mr. Chalabi or any other Iraqi in power to succeed Saddam. Other top U.S. officials have vowed repeatedly that only the Iraqis can choose their future leadership.

In affairs of state, denial is all too often the equivalent of confirmation. Let's hope that the White House is telling the truth this time?-and that the Iraqis themselves, rather than the Pentagon or the State Department, will render the final judgment on Mr. Chalabi's ambitions. Our own future as well as theirs may depend on it.

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Sofia
 
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Reply Wed 23 Apr, 2003 02:58 pm
Bolds are mine.
Saturday April 19, 4:54 AM

Chalabi says no role for him or U.N. in Iraq govt
By Edmund Blair

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Pro-American Iraqi politician Ahmad Chalabi said on Friday the United States should oversee post-war Iraq and the United Nations lacked the capability and credibility to take a leadership role there.

At a news conference in the Iraqi Hunting Club -- his first since arriving in Baghdad on Wednesday -- Chalabi also said he did not want a post in an interim Iraqi government and would devote himself to developing civil society.
But the man seen by many analysts as the U.S. choice to lead Iraq left open the question of whether he would stand as a candidate if the country held democratic elections.

"I do not think that the United Nations is either capable or has the credibility in Iraq to play a major role," he told an audience of mainly Western reporters on his first visit to Baghdad since the overthrow of the monarchy in 1958.

"And the moral imperative is on the side of the United States, and the Iraqi people will accept a leadership role for the United States in this process," he said. "The United States does not want to run Iraq."


RETURN FROM EXILE

Chalabi, leader of the Iraqi National Congress (INC), was the first major exile politician to reach Baghdad since the collapse of the government of Saddam Hussein.

The U.S. military flew him -- along with 700 of the Free Iraqi Forces who back the INC -- to the southern city of Nassariya 11 days ago, *giving him a head start over other exile politicians. (Slant, not fact.)

On Friday, U.S. troops and Free Iraqi Forces guarded the building where Chalabi's news conference was held in the shadow of a construction site for a massive new mosque. (Is this all they're guarding?)

But Chalabi insisted he was just an ordinary person exercising his right to freedom of expression.

"I am not a candidate for any position in the interim government," he said. "I am a citizen of Iraq and I am home and I am expressing my views as a citizen of Iraq."

His longer term plans are less clear.

Asked if Chalabi would stand in an Iraqi election, his aide Zaab Sethna said "when that bridge comes he will cross it".

An INC official, Mohammed Mohsen Zubaidi, said on Thursday he had been chosen to head an interim council to run Baghdad. Zubaidi did not say who elected him or when, and most Iraqis interviewed by Reuters said they knew nothing about the polling.

Zubaidi said in an interview with al-Jazeera television on Friday his council was working independently of U.S. forces.

"The truth is that I, we, do not have any relationship with American forces. They were surprised that the people elected the executive council and asked for cooperation and an understanding over running the affairs in the city.

"There was a meeting this evening in which we studied a mechanism to maintain security and how to proceed with work. We are working independently and without any supervision or guidance or instructions from American forces," he said.

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blatham
 
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Reply Fri 25 Apr, 2003 06:20 am
Chalabi...did you notice, as he was talking above, that Daniel Perle was drinking a glass of water.
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