Psychic "illnesses" are like drug addictions. There is no cure but the end of it. You must ride out the storm.
A manic depressive doens't want anything but to hit the bottom. Wants to be proven right in that life is not worth living. To prescribe drugs and restrain wits is only slowing the decent. It is impossible to reverse a person's nature through drugs or any kind of externial influence. The desire to change has to come from within, and in order to reach the desition to want it you need to feel your pain with a keen sense and an undrugged mind.
But, in fear of seeming a bit harsh, I do not believe that mental plagues are illnesses. The only illness, as I see it, is a lack of understanding, a twisting in perspectives that makes preception unbearable, meaningless and hellbent. That is not to say that I'd blame it on the patients, though they are invariably in love with their own demise. Many factors are in play, but ultimately the only person who can deal with it is the person experiencing it.
Cyracuz wrote:Psychic "illnesses" are like drug addictions. There is no cure but the end of it. You must ride out the storm.
A manic depressive doens't want anything but to hit the bottom. Wants to be proven right in that life is not worth living. To prescribe drugs and restrain wits is only slowing the decent. It is impossible to reverse a person's nature through drugs or any kind of externial influence. The desire to change has to come from within, and in order to reach the desition to want it you need to feel your pain with a keen sense and an undrugged mind.
But, in fear of seeming a bit harsh, I do not believe that mental plagues are illnesses. The only illness, as I see it, is a lack of understanding, a twisting in perspectives that makes preception unbearable, meaningless and hellbent. That is not to say that I'd blame it on the patients, though they are invariably in love with their own demise. Many factors are in play, but ultimately the only person who can deal with it is the person experiencing it.
The difficulty is that people believe, are taught, are forced to adopt the position that their experiences are innately destructive and should be fought, suppressed, treated.
On the other hand, by abandoning the illness model, a whole positive vista opens up. The no-exit experience of hell can be interpreted (rather stupidly) as illness/depression or seen as a powerful transformative and positive experience.
Unfortunately support is taken away on the invented justification that the process is bad and destructive.
I see the whole illness labeling as an extension of a very unattractive quality in people. Whenever something good happens to someone they are inclined to take the credit. An example:
Interwiever: "You finished first in the race, what are your feelings"
Sportsman: "Well, I've worked hard and long to get to where I am. I have trained extensively over... bla bla bla... I am so proud!"
The sportsman takes the credit, and well he should. He did good. But what if he did bad? What do we usually hear then?
"I had problems with my shoes. I ate a bad meal yesterday. I slept poorly last night."
We get tons of excuses. I've never heard an athlete say that he did good, the others just did better, when he lost.
In essence, what I am trying to get across is that we tend to ignore our dark sides until they come crashing down on us. Whey they do we are suddenly "ill". We do not see our entire selves, only what we wish would be. The rest are anomalies, illnesses and conditions we suffer from. That's just puny excuses as I see it. Still, I might yet be proven wrong, since my experience is rather limited on the subject.
I think you've expressed similar thoughts earlier john, if I remember correctly. When it comes to the reasons for all this "freudian fraud" that psychiatry is, I am undecided. Is it the incompetence of genuinely well meaning people, or the cynicism of oportunists?
Cyracuz wrote: The rest are anomalies, illnesses and conditions we suffer from. That's just puny excuses as I see it. Still, I might yet be proven wrong, since my experience is rather limited on the subject.
You cannot be proven wrong. An illness does not cause our suffering, it is suffering that may define an illness.
.... er, yeah, precisely. Thanks for your input guys... I'm feeling a lot saner now...
Cyr wrote-
Quote:In essence, what I am trying to get across is that we tend to ignore our dark sides until they come crashing down on us.
Isn't that the doctrine of original sin?
That might be what baptism means.You get baptised into the faith and if you follow its precepts you won't have a dark side.Your original sin has been washed away.
herberts wrote:.... er, yeah, precisely. Thanks for your input guys... I'm feeling a lot saner now...
Good. Now that you know you have been taken for a ride, I symbolically tear up the dark contract of a strange belief that you made with your doctor when you first accepted the ... 'diagnosis'.
Now go hence and tell him, or her, to **** off.
Whatever you're smoking, John, I don't think it's working for you...
herberts wrote:Whatever you're smoking, John, I don't think it's working for you...
I'm right Mr Herbert. When we accept a 'diagnosis' we immediately take on board a whole belief system. This includes the theoretical and social models that support the belief system. Find out what these are. Diagnosis is the name given to a judgement made within a belief system.
If a man said he was a priest and said that he had authoritatively established (diagnosed) your child had original sin, you would not immediately go along with it. So why go along with doctor's diagnosis? (Fear of social repurcussions is a good reason.)
Spendius wrote:
Quote:That might be what baptism means.You get baptised into the faith and if you follow its precepts you won't have a dark side.Your original sin has been washed away.
If you ask me I'd say that part of you has been washed away. A man without a dark side is not a human. Humanity is earned through the struggle with your dark sides. I see it as my privilege to either succumb to them or conquer them. No creed or dogma can do that bit of work for me.
That looks pretty dangerous to me Cyr and not just for you.
The key words were "follow its precepts".
Give us an example of a mild dark side in action.Talk's cheap.
Cyracuz wrote:Spendius wrote:
Quote:That might be what baptism means.You get baptised into the faith and if you follow its precepts you won't have a dark side.Your original sin has been washed away.
If you ask me I'd say that part of you has been washed away. A man without a dark side is not a human. Humanity is earned through the struggle with your dark sides. I see it as my privilege to either succumb to them or conquer them. No creed or dogma can do that bit of work for me.
Yes but did you miss the bit where holy religion claimed that babies are evil?
It stinks.
Dawkins said we are evil too.
He stinks more.
JJ-
Cyr said we had a dark side i.e.evil.Not me.
Baptism is an initiation ceremony which sets people on a certain road.Not all follow it of course but that says nothing about the ones who do.If the road is too tough for you "it stinks" might be a fall back position.Whatever it is it's meaningless and I'm surprised at you descending to that level of debate and I'm also surprised that you think it has meaning for me.It's a subjective blurt.
spendius wrote:JJ-
Cyr said we had a dark side i.e.evil.Not me.
Baptism is an initiation ceremony which sets people on a certain road.Not all follow it of course but that says nothing about the ones who do.If the road is too tough for you "it stinks" might be a fall back position.Whatever it is it's meaningless and I'm surprised at you descending to that level of debate and I'm also surprised that you think it has meaning for me.It's a subjective blurt.
What's the matter dear. I was replying to Cyr not to you. I hope this squares things up because I would not dream of being unfair to anyone.
Now tidy up your ******* writing for gods sake.
JJ-
You can be as unfair to me as takes your fancy.I don't give an on the winger about that.
I do know how to expand "it stinks" up to 37 words though and I can do it less effeminately that you do.
A dark side in action?
Well, some peopla act out only their dark sides. That's called being destructive. Whenever you feel the urge to smash something or destroy something, and you end up doing it, you're giving away to the dark side.
"Fear, anger, hate. The dark side are those."
-Master Yoda
He was surprisingly wise for a rubber doll...
Cyr-
Rubber dolls have experiences we are denied.
Would JJ's setting his big dog on somebody be part of a dark side?He made it sound a pretty fierce dog on the Who Owns? thread.
spendius wrote:JJ-
You can be as unfair to me as takes your fancy.I don't give an on the winger about that.
I do know how to expand "it stinks" up to 37 words though and I can do it less effeminately that you do.
Shove it up your arse then.
Gee-I've tickled JJ's rage threshold.
Yes, you're good at that sort of tickling. I'm laffin'
Setting a dog on somebody could be that. Depends on who, I guess, and why.
Right now I am thinking that I wouldn't want to be without my dark side.
