students disturbing

before anyone comes with an answer, I will give myself and you some tips and you can tell me which is good

the students that are disturbing are very intelligent, but non-conformist, tend to be anarchists or something like that

school to them is a place where teachers try to control them for no reason

now I could talk to the student personally, after class, I could ask them what is so important that she has to discuss it during my class, I could ask them to be quiet, or ask her to let me work, let me teach - I could tell her, that if she keeps disturbing my class, I will make her sit separately, or that she will write an essay or test each time she disturbs too much

another thing I could do is not talking to her personally at all and give her a test immediately when she starts disturbing - first I will not grade the test so it will not be something like punishment, she will just be busy writing - if her English is really bad, I will talk to her after class and ask her if she wants to improve it - if she is interested, I will tell her how she could improve her English, primarily by paying attention and taking notes in class

I could give her a test each time she disturbs - she will soon understand that disturbing means a personal writing test - she might prefer being quiet to writing annoying tests all the time - if she does not write anything, it means the war broke out between me and her, but that I really want to avoid - I could tell her that I really like her - that I believe she is a great person, which is true, I do believe she is great, just has some personal problems - if she understands that I dont' want to fight or punish her, she might start respect me totally as a teacher and she might be quiet

I remember when I was in high school, with some teachers NOBODY would utter a whispering word without permission, while with other teachers we would freely yell at each other, making the teacher desperate

I don't think my situation is any of the extremes. I like when students are active, independent, pretty lively, but I want them to be quiet when it is time to be quiet. Now it seems they are waiting what I am going to tolerate and I really have to decide what I am going to tolerate.

OK to sum it up, should I first talk to the girl personally after class?

Or should I make her change her seat and separate her without telling her why?

Should I give her a test whenever she starts disturbing?

Or should I do all of these three things?

OH, I had another idea, I could sit her at the teachers' desk at the front of the class. I should do it with a smile or say something like Why don't you see what it's like to face a class of 20 teenagers? I could make her a kind of my assistant, like make her do the chalkboard writing or call on students for me... man , there are so many ideas, it just depends on her personality. I just hope some of you will tell me which way is definitely NO NO.

You know how I dealt with discipline issue 10 years ago, that was before my TEFL education? I just told the disturbing students to bring mazagines and walkmans to the class. I told them that I don't care they don't care about English, just asked them to be quiet. Like that my class was quiet, absolutely, wrking only with the interested students, but when some of my friends heard this, they told me I was a very bad teacher and that I should motivate everyone. SO now I am experimenting with motivating somebody who is hard to motivate.



WHat is interesting to me and I am quite curious how she will react - she is soon going to get a lot of my attention. Nobody will yell at her, nobody will threaten her, but she will get my attention and I have no idea what'll happen, it is a big psychology experiment. Also, I think a very important point is that other students will watch me dealing with discipline in a positive way and they will understand that i care and that I don't give up when something doesnt' work. I don't mind if my classes are not perfect, but it will be work in progress, never giving up and the students should learn that from me.

First: never, ever speak over students who are disrupting your class by talking. Stop speaking, look at the offending students or walk over to them. Either way, make sure they understand that they're acting inappropriately (this usually necessitates talking to the student privately; I usually ask the problem student to step out into the hallway and discuss the problem).

If they don't get the hint, I find that separating talkative students often works fine and ends the problems. I don't know if this will work in the Czech Republic, but if further escalation is required (i.e., problem students still won't shut up), then call their parents and explain the behavioral problem and ask for their help to curb the problem behavior. In my classroom, that call would be coupled with a detention, and escalation ends with a referral to the Deans' office.

Your idea of sitting her at your desk isn't bad. Another teacher told me that sometimes she'll assign problem students to give the next day's lesson, then make sure that a few pairs of students spend the class time talking while the problem student attempts to present the material.

I would avoid giving tests or extra classwork as punishment, but then I've had a lot of students who are content to fail and would simply not do such an assignment. It also might create a negative association in the student's mind (it's not good for students to equate homework/tests with punishment).

I'm also not sure that the extra attention is a good idea--part of the reason she's misbehaving may be to get attention.

Talk to her. Try to get some clue as to what makes her tick.

thank you for your tips, guys,

i am definitely not going to speak over the students, that is a good rule of thumb - unless they are doing some group or pair activities

Ryunin, Reading how your head is spinning through all these permutations and combinations of strategy makes MY head spin. I believe your first step should be to remember that you are in charge; this is your class. You are trying to do a good job--with, I certainly agree, far too many students for a language class--and your students' job is to listen to you. They do not have to learn if they are uninterested, but they can, at least, be quiet while you and the tuned-in students do your work.

If the disruptive students are as intelligent as you perceive them to be, they should be able to listen to reason: "Your talking out of turn and off-topic is interfering with the work that I and the other students are doing. Please stop. Right away." Tell them this privately, one at a time.

I agree with Mills75 that you should not try to talk over the conversation of disruptive students. This is a contest you should never try, as you will never win. In fact, by competing, you are giving them unwarranted power. When students talk out of turn, you should stop talking until they notice your silence. When they turn to you, ask them to please be quiet.

If you have made an appeal to reason, and the disruptive students continue talking, most definitely separate them--positioning them in a pattern that allows them no eye contact with one another.

If they continue to disrupt your class after this, I would, as Mills75 suggests, talk with their parents. In person, with the student present, is best. If this fails, you should dismiss them permanently from your class, so that the students who want to learn can learn.

I like the student as assistant idea. Positive twist that makes her part of the "beurocracy" from which she is trying to rebel.

I wish I taught classes that were only 20 students. Most of my classes are between 25 and 35. If you have never corrected the students behavior, they will continue to act the way that they are. I have found that most of my problem students are problems for all teachers. Seperating the students usually works best. As does the thought of an effected grade. Part of my grading is class behavior. ie. if they are talking they aren't participating:) I always felt that putting a student at the teachers desk(which is usually in the front of the class) allows the student to get even more attention.
I have on a few occasions put high school students in the corner. That humbled a few of them real fast! But that doesn't work for all students.
Basically, what it all boils down to, is you have to find what will get the best results on an individual student basis.
Good luck!
Oh, and never ever raise your voice to speak over a student. That means they have control over you and not you over them.

Great tips, folks. When it comes to my head spinning and making other heads spinning, I think it was part of my stress and big effort at the beginning of the school year teaching at this new school, so many new things and I was nervous, I tried to make sure that everything go smooth. Now after two weeks I feel much more relaxed. Yes, the class 6B is a little too lively and there are two or three students who tend to disturb. But now I understand much better why they do it.

Sasha, the "anarchist". I had no idea who she was two weeks ago. She is a lively 16 year old girl with a very, very relaxed attitude to values, but also very emotional. SHe smiles almost all the time, laughs, and I think after the first class with me she innerly made friends with me, I mean she likes me because when I walk around monitoring students' work, she is always friendly.When I personally asked her what she was willing to do in my class and what grade she expected and that she should not eat and drink and talk if she wants ONE, the best grade, she told me in a very lovely way and in broken English: I am not perfect. I must eat sometimes and talk sometimes. Two is OKAY, I not need ONE.

So here she is, explaining her personality. Pretty cute, isn't she?

I have no problem with her anymore. Whenever she starts disturbing, I wait or say Sasha, please, and she stops.

There is a new interesting problem, but I guess I know how to solve it. IN the other class, which is much quiter, I deal with this strange 16 year old guy who is probably a virtuoso at his instrument, but he looks like he knows everything and looks like he is not interested in my class. But that does not make sense, because when I was teaching "present continuous for future", like What are you doing tomorrow evening? He said he had never seen this tense before. WHen I ask him to write examples, he writes something like "On Saturday evening I am jumping from the Nuselsky bridge". I don't even know how to correct that sentence because it makes no sense to me that somebody would arrange commiting suicide. So I told him that better would be On Sunday evening I am going to jump from ... Gee, but what kind of idea is that? Anyway, last time I noticed he was doing something that didn't seem part of my English lesson. It was Math, he was studying Math discussing it with his classmate. IN my mind, I went Are you kidding? I told him that this was an English lesson and he was supposed to study English. But next time if he does it again, I will talk to him after the lesson and ask him what is that behavior about. He is definitely intelligent, but gives me stupid examples. His grammar is really bad, but he studies Math in English classes. He wants to get A from me. SO I will tell him that if he does not radically change his attitude he may end up with 3. But what is annoying to me is that this guy just doesn't make sense to me. Why does he want to cause any problems to himself or me? I don't get it. I think I will ask him: Do you think my lessons are no use to you? Then what do you think is wrong with them? OR if my lessons are good, why don't you participate like the others?

Anyway, all in all, I am in charge there and 90 percent students like the lessons and participate with a lot of positive energy. There are just a couple of strange people whose psychology I have yet to figure out.

I will enjoy your replies to this, really.