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2 UK soldiers refuse to kill Iraqi civilians; sent home

 
 
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2003 09:58 am
Well, this is a fine dilemma these two UK soldiers have posed to the world.
Should they be given the same status as Conscientious Objectors?
-----------BumbleBeeBoogie

Monday March 31, 04:47 PM
UK soldiers sent home from Iraq 'for refusing to fight'

Two British soldiers have been sent home from the Gulf for refusing to fight in a war involving the deaths of civilians, according to a solicitor who advises troops.

Justin Hugheston-Roberts says the soldiers from 16 Air Assault Brigade, based in Colchester, Essex, told their commanding officers they would not take part in the military action.

Mr Hugheston-Roberts, chairman of Forces Law, said they could be thrown out of the Army or have to face a court martial. It is understood they are a private and an air technician.

Mr Hugheston-Roberts said his organisation, which links service personnel with specialist solicitors across the country, had been approached by a number of people serving in the current conflict.

He said: "We had a number of enquiries from services personnel saying we want to leave now. I am acting for a client who was returned from theatre a matter of a couple of weeks ago.

"In previous conflicts we have had all personnel from all aspects of the military contact the network and find out how they can get out of the services. Normally this is just prior to the conflict."

He said he could not comment further on his client who has been returned from the Gulf, but said the case was "completely dissimilar" to that of the two soldiers.

A spokeswoman from the Ministry of Defence said: "We have no evidence that anybody has been sent back for refusing to fight.

"We do get soldiers sent back all the time from theatre for various reasons such as medical, welfare and disciplinary things that need to be dealt with back in the units."

Personnel serving in the Gulf from 16 Air Assault Brigade include 3rd Battalion The Parachute Regiment, 216 Signal Squadron and 16 Close Support Medical Regiment.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2003 10:28 am
good for them!
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Apr, 2003 03:46 pm
Marine Reservist Refuses Service, Conscientious Objejector
Marine Reservist Refuses to Serve, Declares as Conscientious Objector
By Kim Curtis Associated Press Writer
Published: Apr 1, 2003

SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) - With his sister carrying his duffel bag and his mother holding his hand, a 20-year-old Marine reservist surrendered to the military Tuesday and declared himself a conscientious objector.
Wearing camouflage fatigues, Lance Cpl. Stephen Funk turned himself in at the locked gates of the Marine Corps reserve center where he was assigned, weeks after refusing to report when called up to active duty.

"Ultimately, it's my fault for joining in the first place," said Funk, who didn't show up when his unit was deployed to Camp Pendleton. "It wasn't as well thought out as it should've been. It was about me being depressed and wanting direction in life."

Funk said he's attended every major San Francisco Bay area anti-war rally since finishing his military training last fall. He insisted his decision had nothing to do with the war in Iraq.

Those applying for a conscientious discharge must submit a detailed letter explaining how their feelings have changed since joining the military. Then there are interviews with a military chaplain, a psychiatrist and an investigating officer. The final decision is made by top military commanders.

Applications for conscientious discharges always increase during wartime. There were 111 granted during the 1991 Gulf War. Only 28 were granted last year, military officials said.

"The Marine Corps understands there are service members opposed to the war," said Capt. Patrick O'Rourke, spokesman for Funk's unit, adding that he hadn't received Funk's application yet. "He'll be treated fairly."

Funk, who grew up in Washington state, enlisted when he was 19 and living on his own for the first time. He said he caved in to pressure from a recruiter who capitalized on his vulnerability.

"They don't really advertise that they kill people," Funk said. "I didn't really realize the full implications of what I was doing and what it really meant to be in the service as a reservist."

Funk said he began doubting his fitness for military service during basic training last spring when he felt uncomfortable singing cadence calls that described violence and screaming "Kill, kill, kill."

Funk's father, Robert Funk, enlisted in the Navy reserves and was called up to active duty in 1970 to serve in Vietnam. He said he wishes his son hadn't joined in the first place.

"I don't think he realized how close we were to getting involved in this conflict," Robert Funk said from his home in Everson, Wash. "I thought his views didn't line up with military service and he should wait and really look at it."
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Apr, 2003 04:24 pm
If one enlists into the US military and has an objection to participaitng in any war, that's the time to declare their " Conscientious Objector" status, not when the war starts. I don't have any sympathy for anybody that joins the military, then goes AWOL or declares they want Conscientious Objector status after the war starts. The military is not a place to get 'free' board and room for one's own convenience. c.i.
0 Replies
 
steissd
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Apr, 2003 04:45 pm
These guys are not mentally fit for the army service. That is all. They should look for another occupation.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Apr, 2003 05:25 pm
I simply cannot imagine anyone enlisting as a Conscientious Objector.

AWOL and misssing a troop shipment? Um um um.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Apr, 2003 05:36 pm
Hmm, I agree that one opposed to their participation in any war should not enlist in any army.

But what if one has no distaste for war but does not want to fight for a cause he deems immoral?

e.g. I can fully unsderstand any German soldier's refusal to fight for Hitler. I do not think they would have been wrong to do so.
0 Replies
 
steissd
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Apr, 2003 02:26 am
These people enlisted in the period of long-term peace, and they thought that this might continue infinitely. They were quite fit for training; but when they saw the real war that always differs from manoeuvres, it was revealed that they are not fit. The basic training failed to make soldiers of these guys: they remained civilians wearing uniform. It is better for both them and for the army if they exist separately one from another.
Everyone knows that nobody really targets innocent civilians (civilian that takes arms during the war ceases being a civilian; if he does not wear a uniform or any special distinction marks of guerilla fighter, then there is no law that may protect his miserable life, and such a person may be executed without any due process), and the latter die as a result of errors (both human and technological failures). It is an undesirable by-product of any real military conflict, and nothing can be done about this. The ones that cannot stay this should not be in the ranks.
0 Replies
 
pueo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Apr, 2003 02:57 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
If one enlists into the US military and has an objection to participaitng in any war, that's the time to declare their " Conscientious Objector" status, not when the war starts. I don't have any sympathy for anybody that joins the military, then goes AWOL or declares they want Conscientious Objector status after the war starts. The military is not a place to get 'free' board and room for one's own convenience. c.i.


c.i., i couldn't have said it any better.
0 Replies
 
pueo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Apr, 2003 03:20 am
Re: Marine Reservist Refuses Service, Conscientious Objeject
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Marine Reservist Refuses to Serve, Declares as Conscientious Objector
By Kim Curtis Associated Press Writer
Published: Apr 1, 2003

SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) - With his sister carrying his duffel bag and his mother holding his hand, a 20-year-old Marine reservist surrendered to the military Tuesday and declared himself a conscientious objector.
Wearing camouflage fatigues, Lance Cpl. Stephen Funk turned himself in at the locked gates of the Marine Corps reserve center where he was assigned, weeks after refusing to report when called up to active duty.

"Ultimately, it's my fault for joining in the first place," said Funk, who didn't show up when his unit was deployed to Camp Pendleton. "It wasn't as well thought out as it should've been. It was about me being depressed and wanting direction in life."

Funk said he's attended every major San Francisco Bay area anti-war rally since finishing his military training last fall. He insisted his decision had nothing to do with the war in Iraq.

Those applying for a conscientious discharge must submit a detailed letter explaining how their feelings have changed since joining the military. Then there are interviews with a military chaplain, a psychiatrist and an investigating officer. The final decision is made by top military commanders.

Applications for conscientious discharges always increase during wartime. There were 111 granted during the 1991 Gulf War. Only 28 were granted last year, military officials said.

"The Marine Corps understands there are service members opposed to the war," said Capt. Patrick O'Rourke, spokesman for Funk's unit, adding that he hadn't received Funk's application yet. "He'll be treated fairly."

Funk, who grew up in Washington state, enlisted when he was 19 and living on his own for the first time. He said he caved in to pressure from a recruiter who capitalized on his vulnerability.

"They don't really advertise that they kill people," Funk said. "I didn't really realize the full implications of what I was doing and what it really meant to be in the service as a reservist."

Funk said he began doubting his fitness for military service during basic training last spring when he felt uncomfortable singing cadence calls that described violence and screaming "Kill, kill, kill."

Funk's father, Robert Funk, enlisted in the Navy reserves and was called up to active duty in 1970 to serve in Vietnam. He said he wishes his son hadn't joined in the first place.

"I don't think he realized how close we were to getting involved in this conflict," Robert Funk said from his home in Everson, Wash. "I thought his views didn't line up with military service and he should wait and really look at it."



as a former marine corps recruiter, i can tell you that we don't drag these guy's in off the street and force them to enlist. they come in on their own and take the asvab, physical, sign on the dotted line and take the oath on their own.

of course the marine corps doesn't advertise that they kill people, who does? but you have to have been living under a rock to not understand what the military may be called to do, especially the marine corps.

i read elsewhere on the net that this individual went to mcrd san diego for basic. i went to san diego as well for basic, and at least when i was there we didn't go around screaming "kill, kill, kill"

i had also read that this individual was using the military to further his education. using is the operative word, because when the rubber hit the road, this individual suddenly didn't have any use for the corps.

the troops over in iraq, afghanistan, and elsewhere in the world are doing their duty. most of them are faceless and nameless except to their families, friends, and members of their respective units. it's a shame that this individual garners this attention because of a lack of intestinal fortitude.
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