The Violation of UN Resolutions is it important???

Totally deceptive thread title . . . man, you really got a hard-on against Israel, don't ya?

Excuse me but it demonstrates the sheer hypocrisy in a policy that we are told is about freedom

If we went to Iraq for Un Resolution violations why do we fund Israel while it violates th UN?
If it was for WMD's why are they permitted 200 nukes?
If it was human rights abuse why are they permited to commit human righst abuse

Its not deceptive at all, its a real issue and a stark contradiction, you just upset its being pointed out.

I tell you what... you give it a title i'll change it..

Bullshit . . . in the first place, i'm not upset. Secondly, that's a complex cause fallacy of the worst kind, it ignores so much of what motivates the neo-cons, both in invading Iraq and in providing support for Israel--and it is a false analogy, as well. I opposed the Iraq war long before it was launched, and the evidence is all over this web site. I'm completely contemptuous of this administration, and the evidence is all over this website. I consider the Israeli state to be militaristic and brutal. But i don't obsess over it, which is what you do. You seem entirely incapable of addressing any other subject.

Like i said before, you've got a big hard-on about Israel

Are you a displaced Palestinian by any chance, Steve? If so, your animus would, at least, be understandable. All your posts seem to be diatribes against Israel.

Setanta please accept my apologise, i have changed the title accordingly as you may have noticed, however i would say the orginal one wasnt misleading.
I respect you opnions and withdraw my suggestion.

Merry, no i am anything but a Palestinian, actually i have only recently got switched on to what was happening with the whole Iraq nonsense, i have done a fair bit of traveling and lets just say what i have seen first hand has jolted and shocked me a great deal.

Yes a great deal of my posts are on the subject or iraq and Israel, i think most of us are cluless on the issues and unlike the Europeans who seem to have a better handle on the two issues i have found, maybe because they created alot of the mess in Ye Old Colonial days.

The other thing worth mentioning is that alot of news coverage is on the two subjects which brings the subject to fore.
once again i apologise to Setanta.

There's no need to apologize to me, I was not offended. I just pointed out that the title was misleading, and that you seem obsessed about Israel. I strongly suggest to you that you construct a fallacious argument by asserting that the same motivations apply to support for Israel and the invasion of Iraq. Harry Truman recognized Israel in 1948. Each administration since then has provided support for Israel, sometimes material, and always at least moral support. Iraq was not invaded until 55 years later, and for reasons which have nothing to do with Israel. You really need to get a grip.

My assertion is very simple the US administrations claims past and present that it is a champion of Democracy and Freedom, is nothing but poppy cock, this stark contradiction is visible in many instances including its behaviour to depose democratic rule in South America and Iran (which led to the revolution),

currently the administrations hypocrisy is demonstrated in its double standards through its invasion of iraq and its warm attitude towards countries such as Libya, Saudi and Uzbekistan.

Although this does demonstrate the administrations disregard of basic Democratic values the matter can become debatable since it is not entirey overt.

By overt i mean instance such as being given US Vetos in the Security council or Military Aid etc, the one Key example that we can cite, which is of the greatest magnititude, is Israel.

This example (just happens to be Israel) embodies the flaws in the whole neo-Con doctrine, and as such there is no come back to the arguement and no way of dodging the questions because the hypocrisy is so open and blatant and the evidence is so overwheliming.

Israel in my eyes would find it virtually impossible to function, without the billion dollars being pumped into it.

Make no mistake my repeated citations of Israel are not to give weight to the state in its own right since it is entirely at the mercy for its very existence at the hands of the United States, it just serves as a good example to make a simple point. (so sorry israel nothing personal)

the administration can never be taken seriously in its claim to be a champion of Human rights, Freedom and democracy when it funds and protects Israels despite the breaches of all of the above., as such this removes the veil in trying to persuade the american public (some who are in the know), The Europeans (who mostly are) and the populace of the middle east who are bombarded with images, that the american public does not get ,showing the brutality and oppression of the Indegenous Palestinian population at the hands of the IDF.

As long as this exists the world will continue to say sorry america we just dont believe you, and geeks like me will continue to raise the point.

I accept the same assertions dont motivate support for Israel as the invasion of Iraq, since what i am pointing out is that unquestionable support for Israel undermines the claims made to invade Iraq, that of trying to spread freedom, democracy, juctice, etc...

Personally, i've never bought the freedom and democracy horseshit at all. This was not brought up until the invasion failed to produce weapons of mass destruction and evidence linking the Ba'atists to al Qaeda. The freedom and democracy horseshit was trotted out after the fact to give the right wingnuts a talking point and a barb to throw at those who opposed the administration.

Not rain on your parade, Boss, but political hypocricy is about as old a social activity as group sex. I'd say if prostitution is the oldest profession, it didn't beat politicians into the lists by very damned much . . . after all a whore is a whore is a whore . . .

Please feel free to urinate on my fire, just dont get singed.
Of course your right, political hypocrisy is as old as the mountains,
'but what ya gonna do?'
i think if it wasnt for the freedo public discourse these lunatics would have done far worse.
(is group sex that old? geez you learn something new everyday)

Check out "bonobo" at a search engine sometime, quite an eye-opener.

I do think that the unfettered dissemination of information is a hinderance to authoritarian government, but i perhaps don't rate it as highly as you seem to. Certainly the embarrassment of the current administrations failures in Iraq runs around the globe at high speed. However, the supporters of such groups are not likely to credit anything which reflects badly on their icons, so it is for that reason that i don't rate the value of the public forum all that highly.

true say.
you not making this very lively if i keep conceding.

Sorry . . . i'll try to come up with some egregiously outrageous statement with which i am certain you could never agree . . .

George Bush is the savior of the human race . . .


Does that help?

An institution's laws or resolutions, no matter how well intentioned, are meaningless without the power to inforce such sanctions. Even the legitimacy normally afforded the UN is irrelevant. When push comes to shove and a legitimate monopoly of violence must be exercised against the "Bad Guys" the UN always appears wanting.

The UN's Peace Keeping Force lacks just that.

So the answer to the question : "The Violation of UN Resolutions is it important???" is simply "Not very"

JM

It seems to me that most of them are symbolic and dare I say rhetorical? It's sort of "let's pass a resolution and go to lunch". Reminds me of the scenes in the "Life of Brian" where the insurrectionists when faced with a problem demanding action convened a meeting and passed motions.

Funny how many contemporary events remind me of scenes from the "Life of Brian". I even changed my tag line to reflect it. This can't be good.

On Israel. When did Israel cease to become the darling of the (European) Left and become its bete noire? I'm risking condemnation for thread hijacking here so be gentle with me

Israel was never the darling of the Left, goodfielder. The USSR -- back in the days when there was such a thing -- always backed the Arab/Palestinian cause. Back inthe 1960s and '70s, I personally knew a number of very left-wing American Jews who were quite uncomfortable with the dichotomy of rooting for a Jewish state on the one hand, and railing against its policies on the other.