a question

Which man?

man = human kind

so.... answers anyone ?

Hmmm...

I just read "The Namesake" by Jhumpa Lahiri, that's a central idea in it. That it is more comfortable in a lot of ways to just go ahead with expectations. But also, that who one is often has a lot to do with the expectations -- that it can be more false to defy expectations just for the sake of rebellion. That the act of defiance can make one less oneself.

Good book.

er.. went over my head for the most part....can you pls elucidate....& am i wrong in guessing that you go with option 1 ?

I'm kind of saying "none of the above."

I'll summarize the book a bit to try to make what I'm saying clearer:

Gogol Ganguli was born in America to immigrant Bengali parents. They were wholly Bengali, and socialized with other Bengalis, and traveled annually to Calcutta, and he was steeped in Bengali culture and expectations even in America. How to act, what to study, who to marry, etc.

He goes through a time in his life when he wants to repudiate all of that -- he dates white/ American women, he pursues studies other than what his parents want, he eats takeout Chinese rather than the Bengali food he grew up with. He changes his name.

After several relationships with America women, he calls a Bengali woman his age, Moushumi, who he actually grew up with though he didn't know her well at the time, she would come to his house along with many other families for parties, etc. She is also divided as he is, partly Bengali, partly American. They find comfort in each other, in their commonalities -- they speak Bengali to each other occasionally, etc. Both sets of parents are absolutely thrilled. They get married, a traditional ceremony that pleases the community, all the mashis and meshos ("aunts" and "uncles") they grew up with.

But they're not quite satisfied. Moushumi, especially. She feels like she has capitulated after all, that even though Gogol is not a "typical" Bengali she has still given in somehow. She has an affair, destroys the marriage.

Gogol goes the opposite direction -- he becomes closer to his mother and sister, embraces more of his Bengali identity. Embraces, in other words, that the expectations he grew up with -- what and how to study, what kind of job to get, how to act towards his family -- are part of him.

Re: a question


i dunno b uti can ttake i t anymore so some o one shoo tm e

Is it the man on the Clapham Omnibus or Neolithic man or a man in a boat or the first man on the moon.Or are you a speaking of the lowest common denominator or a man you know well.

Oh-I nearly forgot-what's "comfortable" in each of the cases above.

so if you agree with Gogol's move, then you are besically saying that option 2 (where one is more comfortable being what he is told/expected to be) is your pick. fair enough.


and ty for the summary of the story - i enjoyed it.
btw. mashi = mom's sister and mesho = mom's sister's husband.

more comfortable = what comes more naturally to man.

Hi.

Interesting question. I think we all have to resolve this at some point in our lives (maybe not).

I think this is a personal question. Every person will have a different answer at a different point in time.

At the moment, I am more comfy being who am I. This is simply because others expectations, what they wish I would do, is so damn suffocating.
I do not consider myself a rebel. I simply find the present expectations to be a nuisance and no help to me. My life is easier if I do not listen to it too much. If I try to 'conform' at this point in time, my life will be hell. I would have to compromise my sense of self and happiness.

Just the circumstances.

In adapting to others and what they want: my personality says " F*** You!!"
That is my gut reaction.
I have reached a 'glut point' where I have heard enough of outside input.
It is a expressive, explorative point .

Who knows how I will feel tomorrow though:)

ty and hi.



thats not quite what i asked - what the answer of every person to this question could be.

my question is of a more fundamental level -


i want to know, irrespective of what men/humans individually think, are we basically the sort of creatures that are more comfortable being what we are,
or
being what we are expected/told to be ??


thats why its in the philosophy section, this question.



is man a sort of living being who likes being himself (& following no one), or following what/whom he thinks (or is told), he ought to follow ??

It now sounds like you mean man as an animal with no psychology.Feral man.

But wouldn't the putative leader have a psychology.

I can't see what you're getting at.If it is your self you seek to understand using this partcicular principle of leader/follower then you will have to tell us more about yourself.

The feral man would soon be behind bars here.

thats not what i asked, whether man has a psychology.

i'll repeat again.......


is man's basic mental make up such that he is

(1) predisposed to do what he feels like doing,
or,
(2)do what he is told/expected to do (alternately follow whom he is told/expected to follow)

You can judge for yourself scientifically if you really wish to know the answer rather than just wasting everybody's time.

Very often one sees on television people who are obviously doing what they feel like doing.The captain of the England cricket team on the field of play for example or a popular songster singing one of his/her little ditties.Then sometime else one sees these very same people at a memorial service in St Paul's or at Buck.Pal. getting a gong being ordered around by ushers and the like.You ought to be able to judge from their appearences which situation they are most comfortable in and thus you would have empirical evidence to support whichever conclusion you wish.

When you present philosophy threaders with a question which has no answer and no possibility of having one,i.e.a non-philosophical problem, are you doing what you really want to do or are you conforming to some mechanically induced stereotype inserted into you by various sources and over which you have no control.

I can't imagine a "man" without a psychology.

this is one thread i wish you had steered clear of.

if you dont like it, then please let the others answer, instead of wasting everybody's time with circuitous irrelevant rants based on presumptions.

Not only am I not preventing anyone else answering but I have neither the desire nor the power to do so.

Others are possibly not answering because there is no answer and you ought to be grateful to me for pointing it out to you despite your stubborn refusal to accept it.

It might help if you confined your contribution to clarifying your question rather than having a wee tantrum just because somebody took the trouble to steer you a little nearer to a philosophical discussion,in which incidentally personal feelings have no place,and which is what the forum is supposed to be dealing with.

A little quote for you to ponder-

"Philosophy is not the art of consoling fools:its only aim is to teach truth and destroy prejudices."
La Nouvelle Justine 1797 by the Marquis de Sade.

You have answered none of the points I have raised and I am not getting overexcited at the prospect of you doing so.

What is this "man" and what is "comfortable"?

and i am not getting excited either at the prospect of reading another of your inconsequential posts to this thread.

but it don't come as a big surprise, your inability to come up with any sort of relevant answer, since you are, unlike anyone else on here, still stuck with simple doubts/questions ( even after me having explained them once) !!!

i am not going to try to explain them to you again - 'cos i am not very sure that you'd be able to make my effort seem worth while - thats if your posts on this thread so far are anything to go by.



funny, how i am getting brilliant responses to the SAME question in another forum, and some less dense ones here too.


so i suggest that you quit concluding that there's no answer to the question i raised, just because you yourself haven't managed to come up with one and arn;'t likely to do so anytime soon either.

Nobody else will either mate.If somebody gives you an answer they are having you on by pandering to your preconceived ideas.

I would be interested in the answer so would you kindly pass on to us,and don't forget others are reading this and a few of those might be my real audience,any answer you get on the other forum which you think is satisfactory and I will give it due consideration unlike what you do to replies.

If you think your aspersions have any effect on me you are deluded.All they do is point out something about you.

Deal with the philosophy and confine your insults to those who they work with for you.