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Shock & Awe in Pictures

 
 
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2005 09:29 am
Currently the US administration is trying to surpress the release of photographic evidence that shows the grotseque torture commited at the hands of American 'liberators' that are a disgrace to the uniform they are wearing and the country they represent.
However I would say there is no moral difference between these criminals and the US administration, people like Rumsfeld who coined the words 'Shock and Awe'

and yes we have been 'shocked' by the barabaric nature of the invasions commited in the name of freedom
and awed by the stupidty of people who still cannot see the moral bankruptcy of the current Administration, that is tarnishing the name of the United states.

I would request people contribute to this thread by submitting pictures that demonstrate the stark reality of the horror of this 'venture' that we are being dragged into by mad men.


heres the first picture of an Iraqi child run over by an Armoured Bradley Vehicle, probably search for WMDS
http://multigraphic.dk/lounge/weblog/images/uploads/0020.jpg


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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,524 • Replies: 21
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2005 09:39 am
War is never "pretty", and innocent people get hurt. So what is exactly your point in showing this picture?
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stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2005 09:56 am
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqihumiliation1.jpg


freedom of press silenced?

http://www.robert-fisk.com/dead08.jpg

shock and awe....heres to your freedom

http://www.robert-fisk.com/war21.jpg

http://www.robert-fisk.com/2324eef0.jpghttp://www.usj.com.my/Upload/uploads/rumsfeld_20030412.jpg


http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraq12_01apr2003.jpg
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stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2005 10:01 am
If you havent got the point already you may probably never get the point.
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2005 10:10 am
Oh- I've got your point, alright. I particularly "love" your editorializing with the picture of Rumsfeld juxtaposed next to the burning building. Rolling Eyes

I haven't seen any pictures of suicide bombers killing OUR soldiers. How come?
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stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2005 11:09 am
Phoenix your asking me as though i sent them there?
Thats part of my contention that Rumsfeld and his gang are sending soliders to die for a war based on lies and at the same time the so called 'war' has rought nothing but misery to the vast majority of iraqi people.

please, fee free to post ANY PICS YOU LIKE!

I think its scandalous that our soliders are being killed for a war that has been based on lies.

And the pic of Rumsfeld is entirely contextual, hes in charge, he ordered 'shock and awe' and thats some of the result of man who says 'he doesnt do diplomacy'

I have not construed anything that doesnt or isnt a reflection of truth.

Why dont you ask Rumsfeld hy he cant be bothered to sign the letters sent out to the families of dead soliders and instead gets a machine to do it?

as i said PLEASE feel free to put pictures of OUR soliders being killed by sucide bombers.....

I can see your upset and so am I. Good, we should be.
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dragon49
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2005 12:17 pm
this isn't a picture but it sure paints one for you....

In Iraq under Saddam, if you are a woman, you could face:

Beheading. Under the pretext of fighting prostitution, units of "Fedayeen Saddam," the paramilitary organization led by Uday Hussein, Saddam's eldest son, have beheaded in public more than 200 women throughout the country, dumping their severed heads at their families' doorsteps. Many families have been required to display the victim's head on their outside fences for several days. These barbaric acts were carried out in the total absence of any proper judicial procedures and many of the victims were not engaged in prostitution, but were targeted for political reasons. For example, Najat Mohammad Haydar, an obstetrician in Baghdad, was beheaded after criticizing the corruption within health services. (Amnesty International Report, Iraq: Systematic Torture of Political Prisoners, August 2001; Iraqi Women's League in Damascus, Syria)

Rape. The Iraqi Government uses rape and sexual assault of women to achieve the following goals: to extract information and forced confessions from detained family members; to intimidate Iraqi oppositionists by sending videotapes showing the rape of female family members; and to blackmail Iraqi men into future cooperation with the regime. Some Iraqi authorities even carry personnel cards identifying their official "activity" as the "violation of women's honor." (U.S. Department of State, Country Reports on Human Rights Practices-2001, March 2002; Iraq Research and Documentation Project, Harvard University)

Torture. The Iraqi Government routinely tortures and kills female dissidents and the female relatives of Iraqi oppositionists and defectors. Victims include Safiyah Hassan, the mother of two Iraqi defectors, who was killed after publicly criticizing the Iraqi Government for killing her sons after their return to Iraq. Women in Saddam's jails are subjected to the following forms of torture: brutal beatings, systematic rape, electrical shocks, and branding. (U.S. Department of State, Country Reports on Human Rights Practices-2001, March 2002; U.S. Department of State, Iraq: A Population Silenced, December 2002)

Murder. In 1990, Saddam Hussein introduced Article 111 into the Iraqi Penal Code in a calculated effort to strengthen tribal support for his regime. This law exempts men who kill their female relatives in defense of their family's honor from prosecution and punishment. The UN Special Rapporteur on Violence Against Women reported that more than 4,000 women have been victims of so-called "honor killings" since Article 111 went into effect. (UN Commission on Human Rights, Report of the Special Rapporteur on Violence Against Women, January 2002)

source
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dragon49
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2005 12:30 pm
here's one of a us soldier at a mass graves site from the saddam days...

http://massgraves.info/214.jpg

from massgraves.info...those bags are bones of different people buried out there
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dragon49
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2005 12:36 pm
here's another from the same website...

http://massgraves.info/239.jpg

i realize you said you wanted pics of the barbaric invasion of the US, I just thought I'd show Saddam's barbaric rule...these pics caused shock for me...I also found a website that claims to have a video of the beheading of the Egyptian Ambassador to Iraq, but I can't bring myself to watch it to validate if it is true or not.
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2005 12:54 pm
Duelling horrible photos? Are we equating what the US is doing to what Saddam did?

Sad, if that's the best that can be said about the current situation...
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dragon49
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2005 01:01 pm
actually i was trying to show how much more horrible it was under saddam. what happened when we invaded was unfortunate, but not deliberate. we didn't intend to kill innocent iraqis, but unfortunately it happened (very sad, that i am not trying to downplay that). However, Saddam did intend to kill thousands of people. he deliberately killed these people, dug mass graves out in the middle of the sand, and dumped the bodies there, never to be found again.

there is no equating it.
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2005 01:08 pm
THIS is what Iraqis were faced with during the reign of terror by Saddam.



http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/pdf/iraq_mass_graves.pdf





Quote:
Assessments of the devastation vary. Last May, Human Rights Watch concluded that "as many as 290,000 Iraqis have been 'disappeared' by the Iraqi government over the past two decades." Last November 20, British Prime Minister Tony Blair said: "We've already discovered just so far the remains of 400,000 people in mass graves." This scale of destruction rivals 1994's Rwandan genocide.
USAID relays the stories of three men who were left for dead, but escaped their graves, thanks to non-fatal wounds. Ali (a pseudonym) recalls being dragged from his car during a March 6, 1991 family outing. The 36-year-old was driven to the Mahawil military camp, 60 miles south of Baghdad. Among roughly 200 captives, he says he saw some, including a blind man and a five-year-old boy, shot and thrown into a trench. To speed the killing, others were burned alive on a 20-foot-wide pile of tires. Still more were forced to stand for hours in cold water, given electric shocks on their tongues, or fatally beaten with pipes. Unlike Ali, few got away.

Medical examiners, legal experts and human-rights personnel are excavating these graves meticulously, both to identify the dead and to gather evidence for the trials of Baathist henchmen for crimes against humanity. Despite the war critics' hackneyed lie that America is all alone in Iraq (perhaps those troops from 35 countries are really tin soldiers), the U.S. enjoys international help in this area. Denmark, Finland, Germany, and Sweden have provided forensic teams and material assistance.

Many Iraq-war opponents complain about Camp Delta at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, as if it were an American Stalag for al Qaeda terrorists. These folks should remember that those who tumbled into Saddam Hussein's mass-grave program did not get there after indictments, trials, and appeals. They didn't even have lawyers. Some of those killed had rebelled against Hussein's regime or deserted the military. Most, though, were gunned down and left to rot without the dignity of coffins and tombstones, simply for being Kurdish or Shiite or standing on the wrong corner during a Baathist street sweep.

Iraq's mass graves have received some attention, but foes of Operation Iraqi Freedom prefer to discuss other things. They would rather focus on unseen weapons of mass destruction than on obvious scenes of mass death.

The liberal media appear only mildly interested in all of this. The Nexis database shows, for instance, that between January 1 and March 15, 2004, America's so-called paper of record, the New York Times, featured 191 references to Iraq and "weapons of mass destruction," but only six to Iraq and "mass graves." It's far easier to slam President Bush on Iraq while some 400,000 Iraqis who loudly would defend him, instead are busy decomposing.

Those who still believe America and its allies should have left Iraq untouched cannot avoid this conclusion: Had their arguments prevailed, Saddam Hussein's mass graves would be in business today, increasingly brimming with Baathism's voiceless victims.


http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murdock200403190916.asp
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stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2005 02:32 pm
Thanks for your post Phonenix. those mass graves are a horrific reminder of how evil saddam was, and given that the US supplied him with so much to under take his massacres it becomes even more poignant doesnt it.

When you reach a level that you have to justify a moral position in relation to psychopath like Saddam you know you have hit rock bottom.

by the way have you found some fotos of what you wanted, please put them up. thanks

well heres a picture that we have all seen two war criminals who "dont do dipolmacy "


http://www.greatwar.nl/bagdad/rumsfeld.jpg


Rumsfeld visited the Saddam reigme on 24th 1984 the same day that the United Nations released a report outlining the dictators use of mustard and Tabun gas on Iranians.

in the new York times the US administration stated it was SATISFIED WITH THE DICTATOR (AND PRESUMABLY HIS GASSING OF PEOPLE) this report was on 29th of the same month.

What really fascinates me is how people were some how 'unaware' of what this lunatic was doing especialy since they were selling him the weapons and technology to carry out his murder.

Yes the man was insane, but were we more insane for putting a 'knife' in his hands? So isnt there such thing as assisting a crime, accomplice i think its called, i think that is a bad thing aswell.

Heres another whens Rumsfeld gonna 'medival' on Libya, or Uzbekistan, or China or Sudan or Sudan or Egypt or Israel or Zimbabwae etc......, or are we only super heros some of the times and in only some of the places.???
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2005 02:36 pm
I don't know what is wrong with my link at the top. Earlier I was able to open it, but now I am not able to. It showed the bodies ilined up in a large room.
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stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2005 02:42 pm
thanks phoenix, see if you can find an alternative link.
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dragon49
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2005 03:13 pm
steve,

i honestly don't know enough about what happened back in the day with the US and Saddam. What I do know is what he was doing to his people was horrendous (and i take particular offense to the first post i made about his treatment of women - of course because i am a woman).

The US made a decision to go in and remove him for many reasons. yes, war is ugly as you proved earlier in this thread. and in regards to us justifying our moral position in regards to saddam? that is just ridiculous. many of the iraqis who have died over there are from suicide bombers not our invasion or war. you may say that if we left iraq the suicide bombing would stop, but i would argue it would only get worse as it would show the terrorists they can control us politically by terror. we may have inadvertently hurt iraqis in our quest to free them (and that is horrible in and of itself), but saddam deliberately murdered them. hundreds of thousands of them for no reason.

as far as morality goes, we aren't even in the same universe as saddam.
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stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2005 03:15 pm
If by a lose definition a mass grave is say 100 people.

then how many mass graves can you make from 23, 589

ANSWER: JUST OVER 235 MASS GRAVES.


now thats the minimum number of Iraqis killed as a result of American invasion of Iraq.

You know they say they didnt find the WMDs- weapons of mass distraction but

they sure as Hell found the WEAPONS OF MASS DISTRACTION.

"Yeah sure we killing alot of Iraqis burt so what Saddam did aswell!"

Well thats supposed to make okay.

You see what really narcs me off is that they wont come out and say the truth, " we went in there for the oil and so we bombed the hell outta everyone along the way!"


Quote:

By what moral standard, moreover, are the deaths of 8000 Iraqi civilians and the injury of 20,000 more a "low" level of "collateral [that is, human and innocent] damage?" By the same racist moral standard that makes a few hundred American victims (including military casualties) a fit subject for detailed reportage and somber reflection but turns tens of thousands of dead Iraqi men, women, and children (including only civilians) into faceless, forgotten road-kill on the masters' march to world domination. By the same standard that led Madeline Albright to claim that the "price" of 500,000 dead Iraqi children - killed by the aforementioned sanctions (Albright did not contest the youthful body count) - was "worth paying" to advance the noble and humanitarian objectives of America, the "indispensable nation" that "stands taller and sees farther" (Albright) than all other states.
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stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2005 03:21 pm
hey dragon please for humanities sake see the situation for what it is!
look at the people being killed, our soliders , their children and their homes.
If you are upset about womens righst what about the basic right to live?
We have seized that from them, they curse us because of Rumsfeld.
You seem like someone with good moral standing, G-d Bless you! Please, its time for us to say this has to stop, i cant live with myself while this is happening and i remains silent.

Why have we not learnt anything from Vietnam?
the administration and some misguided people think that if you object to this madness you are unpatriotic thats Bull***!
Before any people have a right to be patriotic the human race has our right to our alliegance first and foremost!

This has to stop, please dont think that you are being unpatriotic on the contrary you being a humanist and true patrtiot.
0 Replies
 
dragon49
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2005 03:36 pm
stevewonder wrote:
hey dragon please for humanities sake see the situation for what it is!
look at the people being killed, our soliders , their children and their homes.
If you are upset about womens righst what about the basic right to live?
We have seized that from them, they curse us because of Rumsfeld.
You seem like someone with good moral standing, G-d Bless you! Please, its time for us to say this has to stop, i cant live with myself while this is happening and i remains silent.

Why have we not learnt anything from Vietnam?
the administration and some misguided people think that if you object to this madness you are unpatriotic thats Bull***!
Before any people have a right to be patriotic the human race has our right to our alliegance first and foremost!

This has to stop, please dont think that you are being unpatriotic on the contrary you being a humanist and true patrtiot.


Thank you, and you seem very humanistic as well. And i am not saying by any means that the killing of innocent iraqis is ok because saddam did worse-dont get me wrong there (sorry if it did sound that way). and you are not bound to remain silent, speak your mind, tell us what you think. and i don't think those who are against the war are unpatriotic or anti-troops, etc. and i co believe we have given them the basic right to live- without tyranny, without fear that en masse they will be killed without reason. it is the terrorists and insurgents that are trying to take it away, not us. (and that was my point in bringing up saddam-iraqis didn't have the basic right to life under him).

i know what we are accomplishing over there, my aunt's exhusband is there helping to set up their infrastructure. i hear from him from time to time telling me all the wonderful things happening. it is not all blood and guts over there. schools are being rebuilt, hospitals are opening up, etc. i will try to find a post some one sent me with a link to a letter from a service man telling people all the wonderful things we are doing for iraq. it was on another thread.
0 Replies
 
dragon49
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2005 03:37 pm
here it is...

letter from US service man
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