Ye (the artist previously known as Kanye)

I don't feel that Ye has earned my respect; that said, I have no reason to pay much attention to him. I think this is the first time I've ever mentioned him in a post.

It's possible that the writers of those articles believe that his new name isn't well enough known yet so they use "Kanye West" so that people will know who the person is.

I don't think Ye should be compared to Ali, the cases are very different.

Ali was a decent serious human being. His name change has religious and political overtones.

His name was an Islamic name signifying his conversion from Christianity to Islam.

It was more than that, it was also a rejection of his slave master's name, and the racist attitude of contemporary white Christian America.

He went out on a limb and had a really hard time because of it, including taking away his titles because he wanted to do the right thing.

Ye has never come close to doing the right thing, he's an attention seeker who deliberately courts controversy by repeating discredited conspiracy theories and antisemitic slurs.

Far from speaking up for the downtrodden he licks the arse of white supremacists, supporting Trump and wearing white lives matter shirts.

His name change is just a contraction of Kanye to begin with, almost like a nickname.

Having said that I take your point about how he should be referred to by his legal name.

As he's not a remotely serious person, just a self centred narcissist who is desperate to court controversy I really don't care. If he was a decent human being I would.

I will use his legal name, but as far as everything else goes he can go **** himself.

There's far more worthy things to find grating.

Yes you would think this is important; to get someone's name correct. For example Nike lost Steph Curry due to mispronounced his name. How dumb is that?

Well good luck to Ye because there's already a word "ye", used as a second person plural pronoun and also an archaic word "ye", which means "the". And they're both pronounced with a long "e".


I agree. Taking offense because someone doesn't pronounce your name correctly is dumb. And juvenile.

I think the point was the Nike was dumb for not knowing how to pronounce Curry's name, not that Curry was dumb for taking offense. I think if someone I worked with refused to learn to pronounce my name correctly, I would eventually get pissed.

I agree with all your comments about Ali, but in the 60's when he changed his name, he was roundly ridiculed, and many announcers absolutely did not respect him or his reasons for changing his name. My guess is that folks of the day were a lot more opinionated about Ali's name change than Ye's.

Ali was a very brave principled man.

Ye is just an idiot.

Agreed, but in the 60's, there were a lot of people saying Ali was just an idiot. Not that I think that history will be kind to Ye.

Actually I was saying that Nike was dumb. It was a completely dumb and an easily avoidable mistake.

Here you have an MVP basketball player you want to endorse and you cannot pronounce his name correctly? That shows you do not really care and if they make a mistake like this, do you trust they will care enough to endorse you in the way in which you like? Especially as there are several competitors out there in which someone of that known caliber can just walk out the door.

In any case, Under Amour is very happy about it.

That's fair enough.

I knew that but I don't think mispronouncing someone's name is a big deal and that's the point I was making. My own surname, while easily pronounceable, is routinely butchered because of dipthongs and missing umlauts. Why should that offend me? For the sake of discussion, assume that it was Curry's first name that was mispronounced. He could spell it "Steff" (if he pronounces it that way) and avoid the misunderstanding – or develop a backbone and shrug off the ignorance of others.

It was his first name.

Look at it this way, he was being sought out as part of a billion dollar business deal. Which is completely different to mispronounce your name than someone you are entertaining to make lots of money from. Not to mention being part of Nike your job is to know sports! It seems inconceivable that someone who is high up and trying to sign on a big business deal does not know how to pronounce his name correctly - how could Steph feel comfortable they would say his name correctly in commercial or other media.

Do you work with clients at all? If you were about to close a billion dollar deal would it not be your top priority to get all the small details correct so they feel comfortable you would handle all business correctly?

But to be honest, that is not the sole reason he turned down the deal. But if you had two sports companies coming after you, wouldn't you prefer the one that wants you enough to know your name?

Nike went with Kyrie Irving instead; think Under Amour won that one.

In any case, getting someone's name correct shows you care and respect that person, or at the very least apologizing when you get it wrong.

So it wasn't "Nike" – it was one person.


He should have gone by "Steve" – people can pronounce that pretty easily. Same with "Ye" – it's asking to be mispronounced!


Understood.


I agree.

I think it is a fundamental courtesy to call someone as they want to be called. Not as you want to call them, not as you can easily pronounce, not as it is convenient to call them. If someone is named James and you call them Jim and he corrects you, but you refuse to use his correct name, you are being an ass. I can see someone with a tough to pronounce name just letting it slide, but it's still rude to refuse to make an effort. I was working with a coworker in Mexico recently, her name is Laura. In English, that is a two-syllable word (Lar-ah), but in Spanish, there are three (La ur ah). She's used to Americans screwing it up, but it's not hard to do it correctly and I practiced until I could. I think that is the minimum, polite thing to do. In the case of Ye, it is a lot more straightforward than that of course.

Of course it is. A James is not a Jimmy, a Tommy is not a Thomas. Completely different names and different connotations. I find it a bit strange when I hear William Shatner referred to Bill, which he seems to like, because we know him as
William. Same with Raymond Burr. I've never thought of him as a Ray.

I am shocked!

Ali has been proven right.

I'm fairly certain that in 100 yrs time people will still think Ye was an idiot.

No doubt about it.

Taking offense at the behavior of such an ass is pointless. I can't imagine why anyone takes themselves that seriously. Curry's just another sports celebrity prima donna as far as I'm concerned.

Chances are I won't be talking to Ye so I don't feel that I need to follow the same etiquette that we might expect from the media. But I'll most likely go back to ignoring him.


Not if they expect to hear their name pronounced perfectly. Some languages have sound combinations that are difficult for some individuals to manage. I met a Russian pianist once at a jam session. His name was some variation on "George". He preferred that we call him "George" rather than listen to a bunch of people mangle his name and defile his heritage.