Is it possibe to create a "closed" forum for writers?

It's a worthy idea.

I haven't a clue how it would work.

I always assume anything I write here is published.

Joe(that's just me)Nation

On the other hand, there is a basic copyright, see the Terms of Service. I suppose, though, you already have seen it.

All I can say is I've been a member of a2k for a long time, and some portion of the folks here are serious about writing, some published, and I don't know of any difficulties.

My ex was a screen writer and one of his ideas was stolen by the best. (I shan't elaborate). Thing is, you can't really copyright ideas.




I guess I should clarify that idea wasn't absconded with online, much less by people on a2k. It was taken from a pitch meeting and published as in production by the studio, under other names, within four weeks. <shrug>

It the writing and ideas are that valuable, I have a question. Would you post your credit card number on what you were assured was a closed forum, only open to others who posted their numbers?

Roger says what I was thinking.

I'm not particularly worried about specific text being copied, I could sue if I wanted to. Ideas/ concepts are a lot harder, and I dunno if even a closed forum would be enough to make me want to give those up.

I'm with Sozobe and Roger on this - any original work you post here is yours, you hold the copyright, A2K merely hosts and displays the work. Actually, should a dispute of authorship ever arise concerning work you've posted here, its appearance on this webite, in a dated posting, could serve well as legal evidence of your ownership of the intellectual property at question.

By and large, this is a public forum, and what you present here is presented to the public - thats the whole idea, pretty much. If you want to bounce your ideas off the folks here, go right ahead - that's what its all about. If you're seeking criticism, odds are you'll get it here - not all of it will be constructive, not all of it will be kind, not all of it will be informed, nor even so much as pertinent or relevant. But then, thats the way the real world works.

What you offer here for judgement is open to judgement by everyoine who cares to pay attention to it. You're welcome to pay attention to as much or as little of the criticism ad commentary which attach to your offerings as you care to. If you'd rather not deal with real world conditions, this is probably not the forum to hide in.

On the other hand, if you sincerely want to see how your offerings might be received in the real world, and perhaps tweak and tune those offerings to more closely approximate your desired intent, or more effectively engage your target audience - perhaps even identify and define that target audience -then this is probably a very good forum in which to parade your wares. Lotsa folks here come very close to being real life people - not all, admittedly, but lotsa them. :wink:

I said that too, I think, re copyright at a2k. But... I believe ideas as such are hard to copyright, would be glad to be shown incorrect, and I certainly mean in the wider world than only a2k.

I am interested in a classic critiquing forum. If I were to initiate one, I would invite any and all writers who want to contribute stories and critiques on a regular basis. I am not interested in keeping anyone out.

I have already posted an original, unpublished, copyrighted children's story for critique. The feedback from that posting led me to believe that others don't want to post their original work on the Internet. That's understandable, ergo my query. I, myself, am not worried. All my material is copyrighted and dated. And, of course, posting on the net is a form of publishing.

I am most interested in finding a group of serious, dedicated writers who want regular, constructive feedback and who will generously and regularly give constructive feedback to others. There should be no limit to the number of participants, but they have to make themselves frequent contributors.

There are many, many forums in the A2K family for those who write for fun and whimsy and personal satisfaction. But, if there are enough writers who want to work at their craft with the help of others, as i do, and with an eye to future publication, then let's get together. I know a bit about that end of the business and I can pass on what I know. I hope there are some out there who know more than I do.

This type of forum might not be right for me. I have been in several writing groups where participants meet at the high school or in each others homes. I have always learned a lot from those groups. I am quite curious to discover whether the same type of formula could work on the Internet.

Chow

Also, I'll be honest.
I don't want to wade through irrelevant, unthoughtful, or flippant commentaries. I don't want to waste my time.

And, it's not because I think that what I do is so very PRECIOUS. It is not. But what I write is written, and rewritten, and sweated over, and chewed over, and doubted, and loved and hated - and then presented to the world on a platter next to my heart. And I like to think that there are others who feel the same. I will treat their offerings with respect, even if I hate it, and even if I say so in a very kind way.

So, that's the bottom line for me.

Chow again.

Is that how you spell chow? (goodbye...)

Hi Carlotta,

I think that part of what is tricky is the genre you are most interested in (children's books). I have posted poems and short stories on the internet before with no compunction, because the writing is the thing -- how the actual words are strung together. If I have a poem published online and then see the exact same poem somewhere, it's pretty easy to get redress -- look, it's exactly the same, and I published mine on August 1st, 2002 while this one was published December 15th, 2004... or whatever.

However, with children's books the core concept is so important (ya know what, I just came up with a sample concept just for illustrative purposes and liked it so it's going in my notebook! heh) and it's so much harder to prove that someone got the idea from seeing yours rather than just independently coming up with it.

Plus there is a lot more money involved. Children's books can represent quite a tidy sum especially as compared to a poem, for example.

I'm happy you're here and would like to figure out how to make this work, will think some more. One thing I can do is offer feedback on the one you posted, haven't done that yet.

sozobe-

Thanks for the reply.
I think that I've come to the conclusion that the Internet is not the forum for this kind of writing group. (Dammit! I love the idea that folks from all over the country, all over the world, would be be interested enough to join in. One can't get that kind of diversity in a small town setting.)

As I've said, I'm not bothered by the fear of theft of text or ideas. If they steal the text, one's hard copy and internet submission is pretty fair proof of ownership. If someone steals an idea, well, there aren't very many truly original ideas out there anyway. It is the treatment one gives to the material that counts. That's why writing groups are so helpful.

As for children's picture books - they are tricky in this type of forum. But mostly because the bald telling of the story usually doesn't convey the flavor of the story at all. Pictures are 50% of the fun, or better.

I am a text book illustrator by profession, but I have published several picture books with a major publisher. Writing for children is quite hard, and very formulated. Being an illustrator, I have an edge in this field, but I could be a better writer.

The story I posted wasn't so much for critique in this case, but to show others a very basic way to present a picture book manuscript. I hope you and others can use the format when you write and present your own material. I guess I naively thought that other writers had scads of stories, finished and unfinished, just waiting to throw into the forum.

So, this is my feeling at the moment. I will just let the whole idea hang out there for awhile. I'm sure that anyone who wants to post will think abut the pros and cons. If it is important enough to them, they'll let me know. It only takes about three or four willing participants to start a good group.

Lots of luck to you. I hope you publish your manuscript and start a new career. (Oh, sorry to throw cold water on your hopes, but writing for children is probably the least lucrative part of the business. Better than poetry royalties I'll bet, but not enough to make a living. You can't give up your day job!) (Unless you're J.K.Rowlings, of course.)

Carlotta

Oh, this isn't a career I'm pursuing at the moment at all. It's something that has always been an interest of mine -- I have an aunt who is a Caldecott-winning author and illustrator, and she always encouraged me to follow in her footsteps -- but this just kind of fell in my lap in the course of the home-based editing (and some writing) that I've been doing lately. (My day job is stay-at-home mom.)

For the books that I take notes on, I would do the whole thing, writing and illustrating. (I'm already a published illustrator.)

Would you like a critique? I'm willing to give it if that's something you're going for, but if not (and it sounds like not), I'll spend time on other things.

sozobe-
I knew that there would be gems like you in this forum!!
What kind of editing do you do? Good editors are hard to find.
The company I work for goes thru quite a few.

And an illustrator too. You will find (you probably already know) that writing and illustrating for kids is a great way to get exactly the kind of book you want. Publishers are open to it as well. Seems like these days half the books in print are written and illustrated by the same person.

P.S. I might want some critical analysis in the future, but not on that story particularly (unless it is part of a forum with other submissions). It is really already done. And the art is nearly done. Much extra dialog and action is told in the pictures. I chose to post that piece because it is less than a 1000 words. Thanks anyway.

Hi carlotta,

I do a lot of different kinds of editing. Have been getting most of my assignments via Craigslist, though now I'm starting to build up a pool of clients, people who I did one assignment for and then contact me later asking if I'm interested in doing another.

Do you already have a publisher lined up for your book?

Hi sozobe

I have a publisher for my children's picture books, but I haven't submitted any new material for several years. I work (almost) full time as an illustrator for an educational publisher.

My current interest is in writing chapter books for juveniles (9 - 14) and that is the type of writing forum that I have been searching for. I have never published in this genre. My writing skills and storytelling skills need much polishing. The chapter book I'm working on is only half done.

I do have an agent for my picture books. I think she is open to handling any kind of writing for kids so I feel that I have at least a toe in the door.

I have been exploring on the Internet for serious online writing groups and I have found several that sound good. Some of them charge a small yearly fee and the rules for joining are very strict. I am seriously thinking about joining one.

I enjoy the A2K site very much and I will continue browsing and contributing as the muse takes me but I think I have abandoned the idea of trying for a critiquing group on this website.

thanks for asking, sozobe, and good luck with your kids' book.

carlotta,

I think roger had a great point, in that even a more restricted forum would not prevent IP theft.

However, varying degrees of user-control of forum is something that is being planned (still very far away) for a new social networking engine we are writing.