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When Christians Lose the Faith

 
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Aug, 2005 06:28 am
Is that what you were experiencing, maporche?
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Aug, 2005 07:13 am
Blueveinedthrobber,

I don't think you are stupid for feeling that way. I am sorry that you do though. It seems it is always the bad ones of any bunch that make it the hardest for the rest.

Not all Christians are like the ones that seem to be why you feel the way you do. It's just like everything else in this world, you have to make decisions. But, is it right to turn away from or be angry at God (or whatever you would call it here) because human beings acted in a certain way?
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maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Aug, 2005 10:32 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
I think that I really understand what maporcshe was experiencing. As a kid he was "sold a bill of goods" about his religion, and he bought into it. As he matured, he realized that the "feelings" that he had in church really had nothing to do with a God, and he felt betrayed.

I think that many of us are raised in religious environments. Some remain close to their childhood beliefs, while others grow up, and think beyond what has been taught to them as a child.

I can surmise, from what he has written, that maporche had a epiphany which really caused him to question the beliefs that he had always held as a constant. That would be enough to make anyone angry.

maporsche- Try Beethoven's symphonies. They give me the "tingles".


I would agree with this. I would like to point out that I do not feel as though I was betrayed by the members of the church at the time (they believed what they believed), but moreso I was betreyed by my own thoughts.

When I said that people will stop looking for the answers when they believe I meant it. Anything that the believer doesn't understand or doesn't want to come to terms with is god's doing. The thought/question stops there. Q."Why are we here?" A. god Q."Where did we come from?" A. god. These are important questions and I do not feel comfortable not seeking the answer. If I were to believe in the Theory of Christianity the answer would be "god" and that's it. That's not enough for me.

My anger stems, not from the church, but actually from religion being in politics. I truly could care less what anyone does on their own time, but since the elections of 2000 and the Bush administration, this religion/politics mix has been utterly disgusting and extremly hypocritical. That, more than anything, has caused me to despise religion and what it can do to otherwise sane people.
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Aug, 2005 10:38 am
Momma Angel wrote:
Blueveinedthrobber,

I don't think you are stupid for feeling that way. I am sorry that you do though. It seems it is always the bad ones of any bunch that make it the hardest for the rest.

Not all Christians are like the ones that seem to be why you feel the way you do. It's just like everything else in this world, you have to make decisions. But, is it right to turn away from or be angry at God (or whatever you would call it here) because human beings acted in a certain way?


Oh honey did you miss the boat if you think I feel stupid Laughing
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Aug, 2005 10:40 am
maporsche- I absolutely agree with what you are saying.

Have you seen this thread?

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=58090

In it we are discussing as to whether religious thought and intellectual honesty can coexist. I think that you will find it interesting.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Aug, 2005 10:41 am
maporsche, Well stated; it surprises me more that more Americans can't see the damage done by forcing religious beliefs on all Americans whether they are religious or not. Bush's limiting stem cell research is a good example. Why Americans elected him to a second term can't be explained rationally.
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Aug, 2005 11:23 am
Echoing maporsche. My disgust with "Christians" and religion started with the 2000 campaigns.

I was raised a methodist. My grandparents, great-grandparents and extended family have always had strong beliefs in God. Nothing silly or over the top. Just strong faith, commitment to service and Christ based leadership. We are also all Democrats. My Grandfather has contributed greatly to local politics, 4-H and other youth development programs and has been active in the same church for over 50 years. He, as well as his parents and siblings, are the kind of people I would expect Christ to welcome most joyously into heaven. They "get it."

But, I have found that upbringing, being surrounded by caring, loving people with a strong sense of humanity and preservation of Gods gift (earth and all her contents), to be hard for others to live up to. My experiences as an adult have been such that I've become really turned off by those claiming to be Christians.

I don't expect perfection, but most seem absolutely clueless as to what it is supposed to mean. And, those that have hijacked Christianity for political and earthly gain make me ill. There's nothing Christlike about them. For me, they have made Christianity its complete opposite.
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Aug, 2005 03:01 pm
Squinner,
You seem to have a firm hold on what Christianity should be. Religion should not be a political forum for those who want to impose their will. From what I have read and seen, religion and politics intertwine more in the U.S. than here in Canada. At least from my experience. Those who pretend to live a Christ like existence for un-Christ like reasons do a disservice to themselves, their fellow man and God.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Aug, 2005 03:49 pm
blueveinedthrobber Wrote: Very Happy

Quote:
Oh honey did you miss the boat if you think I feel stupid.


Oh no! I didn't mean to say you did feel stupid. I meant that there would be no reason for you to feel that way! Actually, I think the Christians that have made the bad name for "us" are the ones that should feel stupid. Turning those away from Christ for using Christianity to their own means is most definitely a sin!

And, let me go on the record here, I am appalled by what Pat Robertson said about assassination! That is not what a Christian is and Mr. Robertson needs to keep in mind that he is in the public eye and I believe God will hold him to a higher moral standard because he claims to be a man of God. I will pray for him.
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Aug, 2005 03:52 pm
Oops, I just noticed that I spelled Squinney's name incorrectly. My apologies. Embarrassed
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Aug, 2005 04:14 pm
I've been called worse. Laughing
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Aug, 2005 05:29 pm
Who called you a Whorse . . . let me at 'em . . . why, i oughta . . .
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Aug, 2005 05:48 pm
Sit, puppy.

I handled it.






I sent Bear. Very Happy
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Aug, 2005 05:51 pm
Once't, my Boss kept hollerin' out questions on how to spell this word or that from his office to mine. It got tiresome. Then he hollers out: "How do you spell horseshoes?"

I replied: "W-h-o-r-e . . . s-h-o-e-s."

There was silence for a moment, then some tittering from other offices. He stopped buggin' me, though.
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Sanctuary
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Aug, 2005 10:12 pm
I was raised Baptist. Never really strict, but I was always the one singing "Happy Birthday, dear Jesus.." at Christmas and praying before I went to sleep. Not because I felt it in my heart, but because I thought if I didn't, Jesus wouldn't love me.

Then I gained an interest in science. I learned, I studied, I questioned. Then it just slipped away. After about 6 months of feeling utter guilt and resentment everytime I thought of not believing in God and that there was no such thing as hell (yet still somehow fearing to be sent there), I just slowly grew out of the habit of believing, and have since devoted myself to my own ideals, rather than those that come from a book or someone else's mind.

My sister and her family are missionaries. My entire family are Christian, very religious. I am the ugly duck of the family - and I wouldn't change it for the world, because I'm following my intellect and my heart. That's something I've never been able to say when following a God I never felt existed in the first place.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Aug, 2005 10:20 pm
Sanctuary, Welcome to the "black sheep" club. All my siblings are christians, and they still try to "convert" me. They tell me frequently that they pray for me. My sister continues to remind me that my relative good life is the result of their prayers being answered, although I'm an atheist.

I was never all that good in school, but came to conclude that all religion are man-made gods of one kind or another. Something about humans that requires us to believe in something superior to us.

I see almost all prayers as asking for something; studies have shown prayers do not work.

I know I'm ugly too, but I accept it as a product of all my ancestors. I don't worry too much about things I can't control.
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Sanctuary
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2005 09:14 am
Circerone,

Thanks for the common ground.

Yeah, I've always been a step down from my family, in their eyes. I'm well adapted, comfortable in my own shoes and I have an extremely extensive and bright future ahead of me - so their opinions don't get me down any!

I've always supported homosexuality, have been pro-choice, an extreme animal lover, and a independent-partyer (regarding politics, that is).

These things have always clashed with my family. They don't understand my love for animals because in their eyes, animals are here for our pleasure, our use, and our disposal. Not really things to cuddle and care for. They've always been touchy about the abortion and homosexuality topics. I don't even bring it up anymore. And politics...well, that's the same story, different chapter. I'm always told that once I "grow up," and "realize how things really are," I won't be "so liberal." I didn't know I was liberal in the first place! (I consider myself moderate. I am be extremely left and extremely right on many issues.)

Now, to add fuel to the flames, I've been involved with an older man for nearly two years, and had been keeping his age a secret (this is due to their lack of understanding). However, about three months ago, my sisters decided to do a background check on my guy and found out a lot of private information (even information on his mother!) that was really none of their business unless I or he had willingly told them (his address, full name, home phone number, and - of course- age). So there was drama, there were threats to call the police for statutory rape, regardless that both I and my mother had already consented to the relationship, yadda yadda.

They even told me with tears in their eyes during the ordeal ('ordeal' referring to them taking me out to a coffee shop to supposedly celebrate my sister's birthday, then cornering me on a sofa and interrogating me for three hours), "Without God in your heart, you'll never know the difference of right and wrong."

*Sigh* It's stressful, because I know that there is a lot about me to be proud of. I'm drug-free, alcohol-free, I'm not promiscuous, I am losing weight, I am an A (and occasionally B) student, assistant editor of my paper, I genuinely care about people and this earth, etc... Yet I know, and have come to terms with this, that I will never be up to par with them. I'll always be a step down. I could be saving 500 children daily set up in a refugee camp outside of Rwanda, and they would still shrug off my lack of belief for being a poor, lost soul.

So yeah, I kind of gave up on dressing to impress them. I've been to far too many church services where I tried so hard to make my heart pound for Jesus and I went to the back room at least 7 different times in a period of 3 years to be forgiven and saved, because obviously I wasn't doing something right. Then it just hit me... "Oh! Well, it would have helped if this God existed in the first place."
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2005 09:32 am
Sanctuary,

It pains my heart to hear of anyone being treated as if they were "less than" by anyone, much less a professing Christian. I am sorry that happens in this world, and I am sorry it happens to you.

I, too, am a great animal lover! I run a homeless cat shelter for cats. I feel that yes, God did put the animals here for us, to cloth us, to eat, etc.; however, I do not feel He put them here for our disposal. The Bible says God has compassion and love for everything He created, so that means we should also have that same compassion and love.

I applaud you for your efforts at making this world a better place. Those that would dismiss what you have done because you are not "saved" are just wrong, Sanctuary. And, you do not have to be "saved" or know God to know right and wrong. People confuse those things and thus, the looking down upon someone.

I do wish, of course, that you could know God the way I do because of what it has done for me and my life. But, it's not something you can make someone feel, understand, or even want. That is also spelled out in the Bible.
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Sanctuary
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2005 09:38 am
Well Momma Angel, while I do disagree with your views on why animals are on this Earth, I can still respect your beliefs and opinions because you gave me room to do so. I do not have a problem with people believing what they wish to - it's when they start making me less of a person because of it.

I am always happy to meet people like yourself who are stable in whatever faith they follow, yet don't need to press it on others. I've always known that there are some out there like that, it's just nice to meet them occasionally Very Happy
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2005 09:43 am
Sanctuary- I think that it takes a lot of courage, to be true to yourself, especially when you are young, and your beliefs are counter to those of your family. I applaud you for taking a stand about what you believe!

A line from Shakespeare comes to mind:


Quote:
This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.
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