Who's going to win Gulf War II (really)?

It was a foregone conclusion before the war even started that the US and UK would win the military war. It's the other wars that are in question. The human life war will never be won with over several thousands dead. The billions our government expended for this war is a big question mark. Was it worth it to the American people? The politcal war is also a big question mark. The security war is also a big question mark. The loss of antiquities in the Iraq museum will never be fully recovered, and will be lost for ever. That's definitely a loss. The hearts and minds of many Arabs in this world is lost to the US and UK. I think the only war this administration won is to eliminate Saddam from Iraq. Regime change will be a success, but the replacement regime is a big question mark. Will Iraq have some sense of democracy? We just don't know. c.i.

Does Bush take his orders from Saddam?
Is Bush trapped, unable to make his own decisions about what actions he will take?
Is the poor Mister President forced to helplessly go along with world circumstances?

IMO #1: Ability = Responsibility
Personally I believe anyone with the power to change the war IS responsible for the war. There are things I could have done, that I didn't, and I am ashamed that I did not do them. I am responsible for the Gulf War -- to the full extent that I may have had some effect on it.

IMO #2: A President declaring war has tremendous abilities.
War is naturally destructive, in many unexpected ways. That is fully expected. With the expectations in advance, do I think the Chief Executive might be responsible for his own war campaigning and his own war declarations -- his own choices to create exactly this situation? Well ... yes!



Enough about me though... I'm curious about your opinion.
You must have some thoughts about this, no?

It is a joy to read words intelligently expressed, even if I disagree with them. I also have never heard of so many references unfamiliar to me. I posed the thread and apparently it has an answer. It seems as if Saddam did win the war afterall. That is if his recent missive is to be believed. He is an excellect illustrator of the type of person who will never give up, even when there is nothing left to give up. His degree of megalomania rises to homocidal sociopathic paranoia. That reminds me of Richard M. Nixon. To end my chain of thought on this subject, for now, I wasn't aware of when it was that the media became a branch of the government. That's a tad disturbing. I also am reminded of Bill Gates and his ilk when I am relentlessly bombarded with descriptions of the evil, rich Saddam and his poor starving people. An independant media might mention the extreme and unneccesary poverty and the obscene solid-gold wealth in this country which is owned by a small minority. Why is there a single poor person in this country? How many "palaces" are there in this country, and how many tragic hovels. I need to be reminded; who's the bad guy again? I have a theory on cruelty. One kind is "splashy" cruelty and the other "subtle". In both cases a similar result is produced. Saddam was very splashy (obvious) about his injustices and his torture and murder. The US is very subtle (inconspicuous) about it's crimes. We've all heard about them a million times so I won't repeat them. It is all very disturbing; all around. Ciao

Saddam won? Wooo! Either I've missed something, or you have.

Coalition forces now occupy the entire country, and the Ba'ath Party has decamped. There hasn't been any organized resistance in days. Iraqi military forces surrendered en mass, and those who chose to fight were destroyed before they could do much harm. This was accomplished in double quick time with remarkably small numbers of civilian or coalition casualties.

The Iraqi People have generally greeted coalition forces as liberators, and the number of fanatic Saddam loyalists has been largely neutralized. Ambush and sabotage tactics have been isolated and ineffective. The number of foreign fighters with a death wish has been modest, and dwindling. Wide-spread looting in Iraqi cities is indicative that Saddam's security forces are no longer in evidence. For the first time in many years, Iraqi Shi'a are able to practice their faith unmolested. Iraqi jails no longer hold political prisoners to be tortured and murdered at will. Iraqi currency issued by Saddam is today virtually worthless. Saddam's luxurious palaces are used to billet private soldiers. Iraqi's are no longer afraid to speak their minds.

Coalition forces are daily bringing the country back under control. Saddam cut water and electricity for the citizenry, but coalition forces assisted by Iraqi workers are returning to those systems to service as quickly as possible. Police forces are being reconstituted, and individual Iraqi citizens are playing an important part in that effort. No one appears to be suffering food shortages, and, with the restoration of the transportation network, additional food supplies are on their way. Hospitals and health care remain in dismal shape, but coalition forces are moving to remedy the situation.

All coalition POWs have been recovered, and Iraqi POWs are already being released to return to their homes. Coalition air and naval assets have already been greatly reduced and reassigned to other parts of the world. As the operation moves from combat to policing, more coalition combat forces will be removed from the area. Each day more of the Iraqi leadership who were unable to escape to Jordan or Syria with their loot are captured, or surrender to coalition forces.

Though no large stockpiles of terror weapons have yet been found, there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that they do exist. Saddam no longer has the ability to use those weapons, and as the situation stabilizes, they will be found in their various hiding places. What has been found is evidence that France, Russia, and Syria repeatedly thumbed their noses at UN sanctions, and supplied Saddam with prohibited military hardware. After more than a decade of lies and evasions, Iraq is finally being disarmed in accordance with the cease-fire conditions of the Gulf War. It may take six months, or a year, but it will be done this time and Saddam cannot prevent it. Terrorist bases on Iraqi soil have been disrupted to say the least, and the Iraq government will not likely be sponsoring terrorist acts anywhere, anytime soon.

A clear message has gone out to friend and foe alike that the United States is not a paper tiger that issues empty threats. There can no longer be any question of just how capable the U.S. military is, though actually we only used a small fraction of our capability in the campaign now winding down. Kim Jong-Il will continue to bluster, but now he must recognize that there will be consequences if he goes too far. Others will be less willing to sponsor terrorist acts against the U.S. and its allies, though individual terrorist organizations will continue to plague the West for a few decades more. Saddam's relied on the UN to dither, and the U.S. to equivocate, that strategy of has failed.

Now those are just a few of the things that lead me to believe that Saddam has lost this little war he was so intent on having. True, he may not be decomposing. He may instead be skulking in some dark corner, looking over his shoulder and waiting for someone to betray him. He's had a lot of experience at doing that, but he no longer has any power to harm others anywhere. Saddam, if he's still alive, is a fugitive who must liver whatever is left to him in hiding.

Are you still listening to the Saddam's Information Minister? Of course, everything I've mentioned above might just be a creation of a "controlled American media". That might explain the perception that Saddam has won another glorious victory.



Extreme and unneccessary poverty? No one starves to death in this country, and many, if not most, of the "poor" have an automobile, color television, high-tech stereos, and disposable income. That doesn't sound very extreme compared to the poverty suffered by many in Southwest Asia, Africa, or Meso-America. Poverty is a fact of life, and will always exist so long as one person has more than his neighbor. The attempt to eliminate poverty by eliminating personal property (wealth) was tried by the Communists, and they created governments that were truly monsterous.

In those countries where wealth was the enemy, only a small number of the leadership ever had as much disposable wealth as a Union Plumber in Omaha. I'm a retired civil-servant, one of many hundreds of thousands, and after a life time of service, my wife and I live on a small pension supplemented by Social Security. Insurance is eating us alive, and we often have to be very careful in how we spend our resources. We live in what you might call a "palace", it certainly is a palace to us. Unlike the communist leadership, or Saddam's henchmen, we earned everything we have today. We didn't steal our wealth, we worked hard for it. We honed our skills and knowledge by study, and sought opportunities to improve our lives and the lives of our children. Sometimes we made bad choices, and lost ground. More often, our efforts were rewarded and we tended to prosper. Were we fortunate? Bet your boots we were, but our good fortune was built on thought and effort, not on "exploitation".

In this country there are socio-economic classes, as there are everywhere. Here the difference is that each of us gets to choose which socio-economic class we want to belong to. Then we strive for it, and more often than not, each American ends up with about what they deserve. There are super-wealthy people in this country, and there are even more who aspire to super-wealth. Fine, go for it.

Regarding your long and informed statement; all I have to say is: OH, YEAH! Seriously it is thought out well so not much can be refuted if you have chosen to limit the definition of American poverty as you have. Your version is valid, as is my own. I feel there is extreme poverty in this country, and all of it unnecessary. There are many forms of poverty and they are all exaggerated beyond justice. I could go on but I feel that it would be unlikely that I would change your perceptions of either Iraq's present or future. FYI: I am extremely poor and I am a disabled veteran. As for my remark about Saddam winning the war; he supposedly wrote out in his own hand a statement saying that he had called a ceasefire in order to save American lives and that the Iraqi government is intact and bidding it's time. I can see that. Not! Ciao