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China and US 'unite' over UN bid

 
 
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 04:08 am
Quote:
China and US 'unite' over UN bid

Beijing will work with the United States to block a plan to add new permanent members to the UN Security Council, China's UN ambassador says.

Wang Guangya said he agreed the deal with the new US ambassador to the UN, John Bolton, at a meeting.

Both countries oppose a plan put forward by the Group of Four - Brazil, Germany, Japan and India - to add six new permanent members to the Council.

Meanwhile, the African Union has voted to demand two veto-wielding seats.

The G4 had asked them to drop the veto demand.

Parallel work

Beijing does not want Japan to have a permanent seat on the Council and would prefer to see more developing countries.

China and the US have different reasons for opposing the G4 plan, says the BBC's Susannah Price at the United Nations in New York.

Washington supports Japan's bid, but only wants "two or so" new permanent members.

Mr Wang admitted that they would be working in parallel rather than together in the coming weeks, "because we have different friends in different parts of the world".

But he stated: "At this stage, I think our objective will be to oppose the G4, to make sure they do not have sufficient votes to take the risk to divide the house.

"We agreed to work together to make sure that our interests are maintained."

[...]



So can we already see the effects of Mr Bolton at the UN? The United States working together with China? To oppose Brazil, Germany, Japan and India?
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Mr Stillwater
 
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Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 04:11 am
Quote:
To oppose Brazil, Germany, Japan and India?


The nice Chinese Govt devalued it's currency last week? And what did Brazil, Germany, Japan and India do for the USA recently??
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old europe
 
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Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 04:34 am
Well, it's a new perspective. The United States and China working together.

It's old news that the United States didn't want the UN to be remodeled, and only changed their policy from ignoring the UN to the stance of "Yes, the UN must be reformed" in order to have a say in the process.
What I found a bit surprising is this move of, specifically, siding with China in order to oppose, amongst others, Japan. I would have thought that with issues at hand like Taiwan and North Korea, Japan had been sort of a natural ally recently.
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revel
 
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Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 07:10 am
Isn't China known for it's gross human right's violations? What does it matter what China has done for the US? Is that all that matters to some people?

How is China any better than anyone else that the US wants to ban from becoming members?
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 07:18 am
http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/chn-summary-eng

Quote:
There was progress towards reform in some areas, but this failed to have a significant impact on serious and widespread human rights violations perpetrated across the country. Tens of thousands of people continued to be detained or imprisoned in violation of their fundamental human rights and were at high risk of torture or ill-treatment. Thousands of people were sentenced to death or executed, many after unfair trials. Public protests increased against forcible evictions and land requisition without adequate compensation. China continued to use the global "war on terrorism" to justify its crackdown on the Uighur community in Xinjiang. Freedom of expression and religion continued to be severely restricted in Tibet and other Tibetan areas of China.
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old europe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 07:37 am
How will the conservative electorate react to neoconservative ambassador Bolton's first move at the United Nations of working together with the communists?

And doesn't siding with 'dictatorships, rogue regimes and communists' (as somebody said somewhere else) in order to achieve short term gains bring back some unpleasant memories?
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 08:10 am
Re: China and US 'unite' over UN bid
old europe wrote:
So can we already see the effects of Mr Bolton at the UN? The United States working together with China? To oppose Brazil, Germany, Japan and India?

Bolton is unquestionably an ass, but US opposition to the G4 proposal cannot be attributed to him. Furthermore, the fact that, in this particular case, the interests of the US and China happen to coincide should not be viewed as anything more than a fortuity.
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rayban1
 
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Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 08:19 am
Re: China and US 'unite' over UN bid
joefromchicago wrote:
old europe wrote:
So can we already see the effects of Mr Bolton at the UN? The United States working together with China? To oppose Brazil, Germany, Japan and India?

Bolton is unquestionably an ass, but US opposition to the G4 proposal cannot be attributed to him. Furthermore, the fact that, in this particular case, the interests of the US and China happen to coincide should not be viewed as anything more than a fortuity.


Good work Joe

Thanks for giving rationale to incongruity.
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old europe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 08:20 am
Re: China and US 'unite' over UN bid
joefromchicago wrote:
Bolton is unquestionably an ass, but US opposition to the G4 proposal cannot be attributed to him. Furthermore, the fact that, in this particular case, the interests of the US and China happen to coincide should not be viewed as anything more than a fortuity.


Joe, I wouldn't attribute US G4 opposition to Bolton. Maybe his quick appointment as ambassador become necessary for the US government in the light of the coming UN reforms, in order to protect US interests.

On the other hand, I have to admit that I don't know what US interests would be apart from opposing the G4 proposition, but so does the AU, and they have at least their own proposition to counter the G4. Do the US have any plans at the moment?
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joefromchicago
 
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Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 08:25 am
Re: China and US 'unite' over UN bid
old europe wrote:
Joe, I wouldn't attribute US G4 opposition to Bolton.

Then why did you say this:
    [quote="old europe"]So can we already see the effects of Mr Bolton at the UN? The United States working together with China? To oppose Brazil, Germany, Japan and India?[/quote]


old europe wrote:
On the other hand, I have to admit that I don't know what US interests would be apart from opposing the G4 proposition, but so does the AU, and they have at least their own proposition to counter the G4. Do the US have any plans at the moment?

The AU? Do you mean the EU?
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 08:35 am
Re: China and US 'unite' over UN bid
joefromchicago wrote:
Furthermore, the fact that, in this particular case, the interests of the US and China happen to coincide should not be viewed as anything more than a fortuity.


And on this aspect: an agreement of cooperation seems to be a bit more than coinciding interests.

Quote:
Wang Guangya said he agreed the deal with the new US ambassador to the UN, John Bolton, at a meeting.


The deal? Which deal? Well, we'll probably find out soon.

Why did I say

Quote:
So can we already see the effects of Mr Bolton at the UN?


Because I think another ambassador might have choosen another way to address the G4 proposal or state America's position. Plus another ambassador might have refrained from getting into a situation where the Chinese ambassador talks about a "deal" with the US. I think that is extremely unfortunate.
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old europe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 08:36 am
Re: China and US 'unite' over UN bid
joefromchicago wrote:
The AU? Do you mean the EU?


No, the African Union.
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 08:47 am
Re: China and US 'unite' over UN bid
old europe wrote:
And on this aspect: an agreement of cooperation seems to be a bit more than coinciding interests.

Well, maybe it does and maybe it doesn't. The US and China have cooperated in the UN on other matters, so I don't see anything necessarily sinister or alarming about the US and China cooperating on this particular issue. Nations have always formed temporary coalitions with like-minded nations on distinct issues: that's the nature of diplomacy.

old europe wrote:
Why did I say

Quote:
So can we already see the effects of Mr Bolton at the UN?


Because I think another ambassador might have choosen another way to address the G4 proposal or state America's position. Plus another ambassador might have refrained from getting into a situation where the Chinese ambassador talks about a "deal" with the US. I think that is extremely unfortunate.

Or maybe not. The fact that Bolton appears to be playing nice with others is, I think, a hopeful sign.

old europe wrote:
joefromchicago wrote:
The AU? Do you mean the EU?


No, the African Union.

Quite right, my mistake. I don't know if the US has offered an alternative to the G4 or AU proposals. Anything offered by the US, however, would certainly not involve granting additional veto powers.
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old europe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 09:10 am
Re: China and US 'unite' over UN bid
joefromchicago wrote:
The fact that Bolton appears to be playing nice with others is, I think, a hopeful sign.


It might not necessarily be seen as 'playing nice' by the G4 nations, though.

joefromchicago wrote:
I don't know if the US has offered an alternative to the G4 or AU proposals. Anything offered by the US, however, would certainly not involve granting additional veto powers.


I agree. Nevertheless any reform of the UN would imo have to involve changing the current post-WWII system, and especially the aspect of veto powers. Granting additional veto powers could be a way, but I'd say the G4 proposal is rightfully critizised by the AU for leaving out the whole African continent.
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