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The anniversaries of the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki

 
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2005 11:19 am
au1929 wrote:
blueveinedthrobber
I can think of many things that should never have been but are. In any event I am greatful that we the US developed it and the Germans who tried did not. Can you imagine how much worse the outcome would have been if the Germans and Hitler had won the race.


I agree, and I live in the real world, but nonetheless it would BE a better world if this technology had never developed much less used. <big sigh>
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2005 11:59 am
sighing in unison with the Care Bear
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2005 01:42 pm
Hiroshima survivor saw hell

N.Y.'er tells of day sky turned orange

Quote:
By MAKI BECKER
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

LAGRANGEVILLE, N.Y. - Sixty years later, Tomiko Morimoto West still remembers the low drone of the B-29 that flew over Hiroshima and changed her life forever.She was just 13. The horrific atomic blast on Aug. 6, 1945, all but wiped out her hometown in an instant. Her widowed mother was killed, and her grandparents would die later in agony.

"They left me all by myself," she said.

All alone, she suffered the effects of radiation sickness, which may have contributed to her inability to have children. But she is not bitter.

West, now 73 and a retired Vassar College lecturer, believes the atomic bomb that robbed her of her family and her innocence saved countless lives - Japanese and American.

"If it was not for the atomic bomb, we [Japanese] were in such a mental state, we would have fought until the last person," said West, who was taught as a little girl how to fight with a sharpened bamboo stick in the event of an invasion.

"I never, never, never hated the Americans," said West, who now lives near Poughkeepsie and is married to a former G.I.

On the morning of Aug. 6, 1945, West was in a factory courtyard with other girls her age, where they worked to support the war. She recalled how they all looked up at the American plane in the cloudless sky.

"Suddenly, there was a flash," she said.

She wouldn't know until much later that a 5-ton atomic bomb had been dropped on her city. Forty thousand people were killed instantly. Another 100,000, including her grandparents, would die by the end of the year from wounds and radiation sickness.

After the flash, she saw a brilliant orange orb, the color of the sun as it sets in the ocean, erupt in the sky - and she hit the ground.

When she looked up, the buildings around her and much of the city were on fire. The students ran up a small mountain to escape the flames.

Her teacher told the students, "You have to stay until somebody comes to pick you up."

But no one came for West. So when morning came, the teacher told her to go home.

West was stunned by the hellish ruins of Hiroshima. Burned soldiers, their skin dripping off their arms, begged her for water. Wailing mothers stopped her to ask if she had seen their children. A charred trolley car was packed with lifeless passengers still hanging onto the handrail. As she crossed a bridge over a river, she looked down and saw "a sea of dead people."

When West finally reached her home, she found it flattened. "I didn't know where to go," she said.

West tracked down her grandparents in a mountain cave surrounded by other wounded survivors. "I remember the horrible smell," she said. Her grandfather was hurt, with shards of glass embedded in his back.

About a week later, she went back to her house and found her mother's body crumpled in the rubble. "I guess [the house] came down on her."

On Aug. 15, a week after a second A-bomb was dropped, on Nagasaki, Japan surrendered.

Within the next 10 days her grandparents died, and the teenager had to cremate them both by herself. West became sick and went to the Americans for treatment.

As an adult, she learned English and met a G.I. named Melvin West. He was "very cute, very quiet," she said.

He went back to the U.S. and they exchanged letters for several years before he invited her to join him. They were soon married, and settled in Lagrangeville.

This weekend, as she has done for so many previous A-bomb anniversaries, West and her husband will participate in somber memorials. "It gives me a chance to mourn," she said.

West believes the horror and sadness of her youth taught her to appreciate life.

"I live amid the trees, surrounded by nature, and I get up every morning and I'm so happy," she said. "I feel I'm the luckiest person."

Originally published on August 5, 2005
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oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2005 03:14 pm
Acquiunk wrote:
My father was in a unit that was being transferred from the European theater (after 2 1/2 years) to the Pacific theater in August 1945. He never had a problem with the bombing. My problem with it is that in MHO it was unnecessary. The Japanese were folding and the dropping of those bombs was more of a test, to see how they would work in combat that a necessary strategic strike. We go around and around about this on these threads.


The fact that the bombings were unnecessary was not appreciated by the US government at the time the bombs were used.

Our reason for dropping the bombs was the hope that it would shock the Japanese into surrender.

It is true that we always take readings to determine effectiveness when a new weapon is first used in combat, but the tests are not the reasons for using the weapons; the war is.
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oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2005 03:17 pm
gustavratzenhofer wrote:
littlek wrote:
Around a third of Hiroshima's population was dead within a week of the attack. That's somewhere above 100,000 people.


It has taken Bush a little longer to reach the 100,000 mark, but he finally did manage to kill over 100,000 Iragi people.

And they weren't even near Pearl Harbor.


I think the 100,000 estimate includes those killed by insurgents, and those who die of diseases.

"Civilians accidentally killed by US troops" is probably in the 10,000 - 12,000 range.
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oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2005 03:24 pm
Letty wrote:
Littlek, if you want to get a first hand account, read this book:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0553205986/102-2802182-0136965

The Nagasaki bombing was the really horrible one, and totally unnecessary. I have been given to believe that it was a test for the plutonium bomb. Crying or Very sad


The plutonium bomb had already been tested, in the New Mexico desert.

The military had simply been given orders to drop each bomb as it became available, and these orders were not countered until Japan started submitting surrender offers to us, which came between the second and third A-bombs.
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Letty
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2005 03:34 pm
Not on PEOPLE it hadn't, oralloy, and that's why I say that Nagasaki was not unnecessary.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2005 04:20 pm
Letty
Are you implying they had to drop it on people to test it's killing power????
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Letty
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2005 04:56 pm
au, my dear friend. I am not implying anything. I simply wonder why Nagasaki? What was our point?

I always and I mean always want to look at war from both sides, understand?
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2005 05:10 pm
Letty
For what ever reason there was to drop the Bomb on Nagasaki I can not even entertain the reason being to test it's effect upon people.
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Letty
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2005 05:13 pm
Well then, au. What is your reasoning behind it?
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2005 05:17 pm
Letty
My crystal ball is broken. I can only suppose the powers that be thought it was necessary to get the Japanese off the dime. But certainly not to test it
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Letty
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2005 05:56 pm
Well, au. Perhaps we will never know, and that is just as well. Whatever the horror of it all, I always value your heart of gold. <smile>
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2005 10:26 pm
oralloy wrote:
[

The military had simply been given orders to drop each bomb as it became available,


Here is the key "as it becam available" . Manufacturing fissionable material is complicated and slow, more so with the technology available in 1945

In 1945 the US had enough fissionable material for three bombs. One, plutonium, was tested in July 1945. That left enough material for two bombs, one uranium and one plutonium, It did not have an adequate bomb design, the plutonium bomb was so large the B29 could barely get off the ground. Both had to be armed manually while in the air, It was not known if the designs they had would work in combat. The head of Naval ordinance told Truman directly that he did not think they would.

Once those two bombs were dropped the US was out of bomb material and would not have sufficient material to make more until October 1945 at the earliest. In other words the US had no follow up for at least 3 months.

Taking a new weapon and using the only prototype available under questionable circumstance is very unusual. That is unless your under a dead line and want to see if the weapon will work and what the effect will be before your war ends. The dropping of those two bombs was a test, and there would be no more available to drop.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2005 10:39 pm
Hello. My Dad was a bomber boy.

Even the Japanese have little sympathy for what they did to deserve such an attack. Read your history books and be happy to be a part of the greatest nation on the planet.

Revisionist historians can KMA.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2005 10:57 pm
littlek, I agree with au; the bombing was necessary. I say this as an American of Japanese ancestry. I also say this even though my ancestors are from Hiroshima. I truly believe trying to evaluate something that happened sixty years ago is a difficult one at best, and probably lacks the sense of the times. It was a different world back then; no resemblance to our war in Iraq. That's the reason why WWII is called "The Great War." Nobody in contemporary times iwll ever call another war "A Great War."
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sumac
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2005 07:02 am
Interesting discussion. Watched a review of those events on Lehrer's News Hour last night. On that segment it was stated that the first bomb was dropped only after communication to Japan threatening destruction unless they surrendered brought no response.

The second bomb was purported to be dropped after a similar communication was also met with silence by the Japanese government. Surely, by then, there could have been little doubt as to the meaning of the word 'destruction'.

I would also hazard a guess that the Japanese knew what destruction would mean before the first bomb was dropped also. There had to be a modicum of intelligence in the scientific community.
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yitwail
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2005 09:30 am
au1929 wrote:
Letty
For what ever reason there was to drop the Bomb on Nagasaki I can not even entertain the reason being to test it's effect upon people.


you should read The Plutonium Files : America's Secret Medical Experiments in the Cold War by Eileen Welsome. it documents how a government agency, the Atomic Energy Commission, authorized a study in which researchers secretly fed radioactive oatmeal to members of a "Science Club" at a state school for retarded children. that was only the most egregious in a series of experiments conducted on citizens during the Cold War to test the effects of radiation.
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yitwail
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2005 09:37 am
for the record, my contention is that the second bomb could have been dropped on an uninhabited area and still achieved the effect of forcing surrender. i understand many people will dispute this, so i'm content to just state my position. i have no intent to persuade anyone to my viewpoint, so in return i ask in advance to be spared rebuttals from anyone who disagrees, mainly because my mind is made up already, and i will ignore any rebuttals posted despite my request to be spared from them.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Aug, 2005 10:34 am
yitail, Hindesight is almost always 20/20. At the time, Truman and the military brass decided on Nagasaki as the second target. You make a good point, but again, hindesight can be seen more clearly in the light of day - and not in the middle of a war that has already had a high degree of casualties on both sides.
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