The Human Race is doing just fine!

@Mame,

The vast majority of people in Latin America have cars, electricity, internet, cell phones and even hot water. They dress up and go out dance clubs and then get up, get in their cars and go to work.... just like you do.

Pick a country... Peru, Agentina, Hondurus, Guatamala. I have been to several Latin American Countries including spending an extended time in Guatemala. You are wrong about any of them. This is ridiculous thing to have to say.

We can look up the statistics... but this is a silly argument.

NOTE: If you meet someone from Latin America, and make your comment about getting cold water from a PVC pipe.... they may be offended (if they don't just laugh in your face).

I strongly recommend that you keep this opinion of Latin America to yourself.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Quote:

Human beings are the only species that shows any interest in protecting our environment.

I feel that we are quite a distance away from even accepting that obvious fact.

we seem to create new products without ever assessing their harms quotien\

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@maxdancona,

There is absolutely NO comparison.

No other species has done so much damage as humans. We have polluted the planet to disastrous consequences.

A whale, lion or locust does what is innate. They kill only to survive.

They haven't polluted the waters. They haven't dammed rivers and destroyed salmon habitat and other lives. They haven't discarded wastes into our oceans, rivers and lakes, be it by oil, plastics, or other garbage.

They didn't invent pesticides and other chemicals that have negatively impacted the environment.

Don't even compare the two.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Quote:

Human beings are the only species that shows any interest in protecting our environment. There is no evidence of locusts forming a group to say "maybe we shouldn't eat ALL of the leaves"... locusts protesting the impact locusts have on the environment. Big Cats (lions etc) hunt for sport, so do Orcas and Dolphins. Species have many time hunted other species out of existence with no humans involved.

Ever har of Ecology? balance of nature, Shelford's Law of the minimum??

What species have hunted other species out of existence besides H "sapiens sapiens" I think you oughta gt off your wagon , maybe read some ecology of natural systems.

1 Reply

@Mame,

Lots of animals kill for sport, including whales and lions.

Beavers have dammed rivers and destroyed habitats. They can change the environment to the detriment of other animals without thought. And yes, animals have discarded waste in their environment causing problems for other species.

This is another silly argument.

Do we agree that

1) Human beings should continue living on Earth (I hope you aren't taking a "kill all humans" position.

2) Humans should continue to think, speak and work to protect the environment and other animal species.

I think both of these are true. If you agree, than we can stop this silly line of argument.

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@maxdancona,

Maybe you've gone to the 'big cities' in Mexico, but I have been to all the Central American countries, big cities and small, and many in South America, and, of course, Mexico, in my travels. I choose to live as the natives do (ie. not resorts or fancy hotels), and I can attest that even though they may have a cell phone (which they do also in Albania even though they're not on the currency exchange), they don't often have hot water or even clean water.

And I strongly recommend you keep your opinions to yourself. I suspect I have travelled far more widely and for more years than you have.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Lots of animals kill for sport, including whales and lions. Perhaps that is true, but if so, not to the detriment of their prey (ie. elimination).

Beavers have dammed rivers and destroyed habitats. They can change the environment to the detriment of other animals without thought. And yes, animals have discarded waste in their environment causing problems for other species. OMG - this is innate to them - it's not a disaster of their making because they WANT it to be and which animals (other than humans) have the ever been a detriment to. Get a grip!!!

This is another silly argument.

Do we agree that

1) Human beings should continue living on Earth (I hope you aren't taking a "kill all humans" position. I could actually care less if humans should continue living on Earth

2) Humans should continue to think, speak and work to protect the environment and other animal species. Only if we do more to sustain it; otherwise we don't deserve to

I think both of these are true. If you agree, than we can stop this silly line of argument. You often use the word 'silly' when you disagree in arguments. Have you noticed that? Meaning, We are Silly and You are Not.

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@Mame,

I am going to call bullshit on this.

Maybe you have done "poverty tourism" where you "choose to live as the natives do". But I am going to bet that it was set up by a tour agency designed to give you "an authentic experience" as said by the pamphet.

I bet you don't speak Spanish (I speak it fluently). I bet you don't have family or friends that you met authentically (not through a program for tourists).

You probably haven't ever rented your own apartment. You probably have never met someone in a bar. I bet you have never decided to just go out with friends to a club.

Again... if you meet someone from Latin America keep your opinions to yourself.

What you are saying is actually offensive. Someone who came from Hondurus or Guatemala or El Salvador will possibly be upset to see their country described in this way.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Quote:

This is another silly argument.

Yes your argument is silly but you brought up the point that Lots of animals have killed oother species. That is, may I say, Total BS .
Animals have to remain balanced (population size v edibles)
Even the Serengeti has a balanced number of predictor/ prey species and numbers.

ONLY humans have wiped out passenger pigeons, dire wolves, cave buffalo Moas, were almost done with the Right Whale.

We kill entire speiecs by over hunting or over hunting the species own foods.( we didnt kill the cave bear directly, we overcompeted him because we have the ability to overwhelm with numbers of our species.)

We live in interesting biological times and you cannot come up with an argument to refute. Youre entire OP was how WE as agents for WE ALONE , measure our own successes by metrics weve created to make us feel noble. HOCKEYPUCK

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@Mame,

Mame wrote:

I could actually care less if humans should continue living on Earth

This is big difference of opinion. My arguments are based on the position that human life is a good thing. If you don't agree with this basic point, the rest of my position is moot.

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@Mame,

Beavers are actually beneficial for the environment which is why they’re being reintroduced to the UK.

They raise the water table which increases wetlands and bio diversity and reduce the risk of flooding by keeping the excess rainwater upstream for longer.

That’s what happens when silly people try to speak with great authority about a subject of which they are profoundly ignorant.

You’re better than that, you don’t need to waste time on such attention seeking boors.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

As it happens, I do/did have friends and family living in some of those countries and, contrary to all the Americans I met, I have enough Spanish, Albanian, German, French, Italian, Greek and Dutch to get by, get directions, have a conversation. So up yours. You don't know me at all.

I have been travelling for 35+ years and from my very first trip, I learned that the best way to learn about the country was to eat and stay where the natives do. I don't do resorts, all-inclusive or cruises. I take buses and trains (when available) just like everyone else I live amongst.

And I have never been on a tour in my life or had a travel agent make my arrangements.

So, bugger off.

1 Reply

@Mame,

If you meet someone from Guatemala and you tell them your impression of their country is your story about cold water from a PVC pipe, you will offend them.

I can't tell you how to behave... but I offer this as friendly advice. These types of negative stereotypes are hurtful.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

They're not stereotypes (negative or otherwise - it's just the reality) if you've experienced it, which I have. In several countries.

Don't need your 'friendly advice', either.

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Here is the challenge...

Pick a country in Latin America, or Africa or Asia is not currently in a state of devastation caused war (that excludes a handful of countries Sudan, Libya, Afghanistan...).

Mame can pick the country.

We will look at
- life expectancy.
- child mortality
- rights of women.
- access to clean water.

Over the past 50, 100, 200 years.

All across the world, human life has gotten better in the vast number of countries and for humanity as a whole.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

This is not my argument. It's yours.

My argument is that of all the species on the planet, HUMANS have caused the most devastation. Well, not most, but ALL.

And so... should we be proud of ourselves?

NOT. AT. ALL.

1 Reply

@Mame,

I disagree with your position that we're doing better than we have in history - we're doing better because of the destruction and mayhem we've caused. So, add it up and we're in a negative situation as humans.

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@Mame,

And... I don't think I'd like to meet you IRL.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

Lots of animals kill for sport, including whales and lions.

That's really immaterial. What you consider to be animals engaged in "sport" or play, is simply the honing of survival skills.

Quote:

Beavers have dammed rivers and destroyed habitats.

No, they dam streams and form valuable wetland habitats.

Quote:

And yes, animals have discarded waste in their environment causing problems for other species.

Yeah, tell us about it...

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.Z3Xiprc6f09_e9ME3ildtQHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1

1 Reply

Sounds to me a bit like...

https://i0.wp.com/www.trythisteaching.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Screen2BShot2B2015-04-022Bat2B10.47.00.png?fit=409%2C497&ssl=1

0 Replies

The Human Race is doing just fine!

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