Devil Worship?

To my understanding, satanisim has absolutly nothing to do with the church or the idea of 'satan' according to the chuch.
I dont have any background in this though.. other then meeting a few people who really were satanists.

unfortunatly, most of the 'satanists' you will see today are rebelling teens or pissed off adults.

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gnosticism is not satanism
hi,

very interesting discussion here. i have studied satanism as well as gnosticism and this attempt to interlink the two is inaccurate, though often done.

This is only achieved by buying into the writings of heresiarchs iraenius and tertullian who were propagandists at best. The basic flaw of their argument is their attempt to use the literal catholic way of reading the bible with the many layers of meaning and symbolism of the gnostic reading.

their reading takes the highly symbolic dualism of the gnostic origin of the world where the world is separated from the 'ineffible true god' by the construction of the world by the evil demiurge (most often associated with the god of the old testament, YHWH) and man's redemption from hylos (matter) by the unknown god -father of jesus- or El/Elohim.

It has however been shown that this dualism correlates with the false god, the self/ego and its separation from a higher god who we are a part of. They believed that the secret teachings of jesus (such as those found at the nag hammadi library in egypt) were for the elect and that not everyone was ready to receieve these texts. In the Gospel of Thomas found there it specifies that it is only to be read by 'those who have ears'- or the initiated. Many of these gnostic texts can be found at www.gnosis.org.

There is growing evidence to suggest that these texts were the writings of the first christians and that all the descriptions of them in texts by Tertullian and Iraenius were propaganda created in order to hide Christianity's true origins.

I am not sure of what information we have of Satanism prior to Anton La Vey (I do not consider Crowley to be a Satanist) but within the Satanic bible the gnostics are derided as hypocrits. Ironically La Vey's Nietzchean polemic however seems to have bought into the lies of the heresiarchs. For a Nietzchean reconciliation with gnosticism, read try Pierre Klossowski's superb 'De Sade My neighbour'.

Hope this helps,
shaun

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Welcome to the forum, eso. This is indeed an interesting thread. I wonder if there are any 'true' Satanists. There seems to be a wide variety of opinions. I was particularly interested in Wolf's suggestion the Satanists believe Satan to be the true god, the enlightener, and Yahweh, the evil one. That opinion seems to be shared by many posters in the S&R forum.

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shaun

from the little I've read, I thought Anton Levay was thought to be a charleton, just a showman.

Is this false?

What about Crowley? what is your opinion of him?

Your above post was VERY interesting, I'd like to hear more.

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Re: Devil Worship?
Hai Chai,
In my effort to escape 'newbieness' I searched out this thread...It is quite understandable..you must understand, that I overlooked it..you see Satanism and devil worship are different animals entirely.
Let me address your questions.

Chai Tea wrote:

What exactly do Satanists believe happens in the afterlife?
I can't imagine being happy about going to hell if they conceive of it in the "standard" way of well, hell.
Do they believe hell is really a pretty nice place, and heaven is to avoided? I know a lot of Satanism deals with power, do they see heaven as someplace they would be powerless?

Satanists view heaven and hell as mythology, pure and simple. Satanism deals with the here and now exclusively. The whole concept of 'afterlife' is nonsensical and without precedent.

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What is their view of Satan? Do they feel he was just given a bad rap?

Satanists take the word satan primarily with it's original definition;opposer, acuser, or adversary. Satanists champion wisdom and undefiled knowledge over all, and even basic research can debunk the myth of an actual physical Satan.

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Also - Satanic masses and running around naked in the forest during rituals aside, I wonder about the type of people who are Satanists.

These are the type of Satanists hollywood producers created out of their own desire to scare people with their movies.

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Leaving out angst ridden teenagers, goths, people who believe they're vampires, and all those who basically hang around acting creepy, wearing black and looking anemic, is there a typical Satanist that functioning just fine in society?

A Satanist as defined by the church of Satan is elite and knows how to live a happy life and achieve the goals set out for himself. If someone is creepy and angst ridden (or appearing as such) they are violating the laws of lesser magic and by definition aren't Satanists. The only reason a Satanist will stand out is because he looks good, and if he looks somehow freakish he is either profiting by it, or enjoys it.
Most of us are perfectly normal looking, successful, highly intelligent people.

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I'm thinking maybe a typical Satanist (besides those on the fringe, as above) could be your insurance agent, a nurse at the hospital, the guy who services your lawn and cleans your pool. Just regular people you run into every day.

Or perhaps the head of network security at a large firm.

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If quite a few are in this category, do they marry each other, raise their children in this religion, etc. etc?

No, we take the credo 'Satanists are born, not made'. This is not a stance in the nature/nurture debate, but an observation that a certain type of person, possessing naturally a certain set of qualities, may at some point choose the label 'Satanist' and fit it. We tend to call these Satanic but not personally identified people as defacto-Satanists. Those that would try to 'be' a Satanist devoid of the natural qualities that constitute what a Satanist IS can never succeed.
So it is pointless to try to 'indoctrinate' someone. Satanism has no room for followers.

Hope this cleared some things up!

Dr.S

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In my lay understanding of devil worship it would have to be some form of insanity. Can you believe in the devil (let alone worship him), without believing in God?

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I don't think Dok would aver there is an individual called Satan.

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No, but do you think Dok is really mainstream? I mean, this sounds like a much more intellectual approach than I believe to be the norm. He may have the right of it - I've never heard this explanation before.

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roger wrote:

In my lay understanding of devil worship it would have to be some form of insanity. Can you believe in the devil (let alone worship him), without believing in God?

Devil worship is an interesting animal, unto itself..however it has little to nothing in common with Satanism, aside from the word Satan..and even that is taken in a completely different context.
To me devil worship seems ludicrous. For one, the 'devil' is a construct of the catholic church, and one would have to be rather naive to believe such an entity is 'out there' somewhere. For two, to believe the christian mythology is true, and to turn and resign yourself to the christian 'punishment' for straying..and to further EMBRACE this reeks of mental illness.

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Very interesting!

I'm interested in how being a Satanist would impact the way which one raises a child/children. If the Number 1 priority is oneself, how does a child fit in there? I'm sure I have a lot of misconceptions, but I am interested. Are there children who were raised by Satanist parents who are public and have written/spoken about the experience as adults? What would it be like? How would a Satanist go about choosing a mate?

WHO out there is an actual Satanist besides those who are either silent about it or making a big show? Who in history would be considered a Satanist?

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flushd wrote:

Very interesting!

I'm interested in how being a Satanist would impact the way which one raises a child/children. If the Number 1 priority is oneself, how does a child fit in there?

In Satanism, children are revered as being closer to their true animal nature, being less conditioned to and indoctrinated into society. I know many Satanists with children. Everyone is an individual, and there are many ways to be a parent, but the common thread I notice in my experience is that the children of Satanists tend to be well behaved and polite, moreso than normal.

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How would a Satanist go about choosing a mate?

The same way as everyone else. Biological attraction, followed by an acceptable level of compatibility. Everyone wants something different...

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WHO out there is an actual Satanist besides those who are either silent about it or making a big show? Who in history would be considered a Satanist?

Well, Satanism was codified into a religion in 1966..so before that there were no Satanists persay...
There are many people in the CoS that would be recognized as some level of celebrity, but most of them do not reveal themselves for obvious reasons.

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roger wrote:

No, but do you think Dok is really mainstream? I mean, this sounds like a much more intellectual approach than I believe to be the norm. He may have the right of it - I've never heard this explanation before.

Hmm..'mainstream'. Well..not at all!
Satanism is by default antithetical to the 'mainstream'
But besides that...4/5 people you meet on the net claiming to be 'Satanists' are anything but. Most of 'those guys' are just using the christian paradigm and inverting the main players. Real Satanists are fairly rare, as it is intellectually demanding and rather brutal and uncomfortable for most.

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Thank you Doktor $ for your thoughtful reply.

That all makes sense to me.

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Yes, that 4/5 is what I was referring to, possibly thinking it was 5/5.

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Hi Dok

Flushd and I are on the same wavelength.

Re: the children. you say satanists are born, not made.

However, if a child is raised in a home where at least one of the parents was a satanist, wouldn't that influence the child?

If the child would express and interest in a belief in God, and/or another belief system, would that be encouraged, are at leaast not discouraged?

You say if a Satanist stands out, it's because they "look good", what do you mean?

This next one I'm ignorant of....How can something be classified as a relegion if there is no supreme being outside of yourself? Isn't that the basis of a relegion.

I wonder the same thing about about Scientology. From the little I've paid attention, it doesn't seem to talk about a God figure also.

Oh hey, BTW, the post I made after yours in the other thread. Just kidding around. I joke a lot.

I just can't help myself, life's too funny.

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Hello Chai,

Chai Tea wrote:

Hi Dok

Flushd and I are on the same wavelength.

Re: the children. you say satanists are born, not made.

However, if a child is raised in a home where at least one of the parents was a satanist, wouldn't that influence the child?

Probably..everything a child..and in fact a person..takes in on any level influences them somewhat. The only alternative I can see is complete freedom from influence. However life in a padded white room doesn't sound too appealing to me, and probably not for the kids either.

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If the child would express and interest in a belief in God, and/or another belief system, would that be encouraged, are at leaast not discouraged?

That is up to the individual parent. There really is no 'Satanists approved' stance on this. Me, however, I would provide as much information as possible to the child.They will see the world as they see fit, ultimately, regardless of any interference by me.
I detect the underlying message here to be 'do Satanists try to make their children into Satanists too' the answer is definitively no.

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You say if a Satanist stands out, it's because they "look good", what do you mean?

I mean that many out there, most actually, really the overwhelming majority, of those that declare themselves 'Satanists' do it because it looks good with their heavy metal music collection and their black wardrobe and white makeup. I'm saying that the common perception of what a Satanist is is completely skewed, and that those that 'stand out' visually in a pathetic 'look at me I'm so goth' kind of way are generally not Satanists.
Then there is lesser magic, which is in Satanism a form of applied psychology. Satanists understand that to look good, to dress well, is advantageous.

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This next one I'm ignorant of....How can something be classified as a relegion if there is no supreme being outside of yourself? Isn't that the basis of a relegion.

Well, the 'christianized' definition requires a supreme being, and in fact society itself seems to. It is nothing but indoctrination to accept what IS is all that CAN BE. Lets look at the dictionary definition of the word.

re·li·gion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-ljn)
n.

1.
1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

As you can See, Satanism fits nicely with the second, third and fourth definitions. Also, that aside, Satanism contains elements of dogma and ritual, which makes it more than just a philosophy.
Myself, I think of it as an unreligion

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I wonder the same thing about about Scientology. From the little I've paid attention, it doesn't seem to talk about a God figure also.

Scientologist believe dead aliens live in our bodies and make us do bad things, and only by paying 360,000 bucks (all told) can one be 'free' of these evil lurking xenospirits. Not a whole lot of similarity between us Razz

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Oh hey, BTW, the post I made after yours in the other thread. Just kidding around. I joke a lot.

I just can't help myself, life's too funny.

If you can't laugh you might as well just curl up and die...

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Devil Worship?

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