As violent crime surges, how does the left respond?

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It isn't surprising. As police have been pressured to curtail their activities, violent crime has surged. This year, so far, has seen a 25% increase in rapes, murders and assaults, mostly in minority communities.

The left is going to need to grow up. If tackling systemic racism means accepting more crime, then whats the point. Far more people die from crime; police are responsible for a very small fraction of homicides.

Demonizing police has never been a good idea. Calling to defund police is a ridiculous (and dangerous idea).

It seems like calling for reform without doing either of these things would be the right way forward.

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@maxdancona,

My son is a police officer. He works for the city police in Cambridge Massachusetts. This is one of the most liberal cities in the countries with a racially diverse, super liberal, city council.

The police want body cameras. The city council has banned them. My son says that with the body cameras.. complaints against police decrease by 75%. That is why the city council doesn't want them.

My son (and I suspect other police officers) are upset with the stupid political games that make their important job difficult.

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@maxdancona,

Body cameras are a double edged sword.

BLM will use the footage to prove that a shooting happened, while ignoring the fact that the same footage proves that the shooting was justified.

The result is an unjustly-lynched police officer.

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I expect that the left will respond to increasing violence by continuing to attack police officers.

As the police are increasingly prevented from doing their jobs, I expect that people who live in cities will begin forming vigilante gangs to eliminate those who they suspect of being violent criminals.

I plan to keep my distance from urban areas for the most part.

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@oralloy,

and the right gradually reinstates its needs to play victim. Cops who commit crimes in carrying out their duties must be subject to the same investigation and punishment as anyone else.
ll arguments against George Floyd causing his own death were bogus, having been created by those who really believe in such things as alternate facts.

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@maxdancona,

we have phone cams that in the floyd case , disabuse Mr Flowd of all claims that he "Killed himself"

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@farmerman,

I wasn't complaining about the George Floyd case. I doubt that Max was either.

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@maxdancona,

Ill bet that Mass has "Redaction rules" that keep video evience from being used for witness protection. It int so much the body cam its what the cams show when witnesses are involved. What sent the cop to jail in minneapolis coube the caue of retribution violence in othr crimes that involve a witness who came fwd .

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@maxdancona,

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As police have been pressured to curtail their activities, violent crime has surged. This year, so far, has seen a 25% increase in rapes, murders and assaults, mostly in minority communities.

Are you certain that this is directly correlated with political and popular pressure on the police, and not just circumstantial? The pandemic has caused enormous changes in the way low-income families and communities function — closed schools, unemployment, lack of childcare, death of family elders, covid-relief cash payouts, and a basic atmosphere of uncertainty. Add to this the ubiquity of firearms and it's easy to see many other factors at work.

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Calling to defund police is a ridiculous (and dangerous idea).

It's just a three-word slogan, not a well-formed or well-articulated argument. It's simply meant to draw attention and provoke a response.

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It seems like calling for reform without doing either of these things would be the right way forward.

I think that is how it will work out in time.

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The police want body cameras. The city council has banned them. My son says that with the body cameras.. complaints against police decrease by 75%. That is why the city council doesn't want them.

Are you suggesting that the city would rather undergo costly litigation and be forced to pay large settlements to settle cases of police misconduct?

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

My son is a police officer. He works for the city police in Cambridge Massachusetts. This is one of the most liberal cities in the countries with a racially diverse, super liberal, city council.

I dislike when you blatantly lie. Racially diverse? Who, exactly, are you kidding? Not me... According to statistics, 66% are white, 10% Black, 16% Asian, and the rest is filled in by an Other category. Cambridge is predominantly white.
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/cambridgecitymassachusetts/PST045219

maxdancona wrote:

The police want body cameras. The city council has banned them. My son says that with the body cameras.. complaints against police decrease by 75%. That is why the city council doesn't want them.

This is another blatant lie. It's not that the council doesn't want them, it's the fact of the cost involved in purchasing police body cameras and implement a program. "The city would have to decide how to protect the privacy of citizens who are photographed, ensure that officers turned on the cameras and audio, and would probably need to reach agreement with police unions, among other things, Bard said. The city might also need to get permission from the state Legislature through a home rule petition, city solicitor Nancy Glowa said. https://www.cambridgeday.com/2020/08/14/comment-at-meeting-about-police-body-cameras-describes-officer-hostility-lapses-about-mask-law/

maxdancona wrote:

My son (and I suspect other police officers) are upset with the stupid political games that make their important job difficult.

Yeah well, half the country is upset black people are murdered by police officers. Somehow THAT didn't come up in the discussion, now did it?

1 Reply

@neptuneblue,

Neptune and Oralloy represent the two ideological extremes. So I will respond to them together.

1) No one wants police officers to be shot. (not even Neptune)
2) No one wants black people to be murdered by police officers. (not even Oralloy)

The extremes want to make this personal. If you have a simplistic narrative, then you don't have to deal with the difficult tradeoffs that exist when you are addressing a social issue.

I am not going to respond to the silly personal attacks.

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@maxdancona,

You're the one who made it personal. You brought up your child, not me. I refute your statements. It's not extreme nor personal. It's the truth.

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I believe the problem is in the extremes on both sides.

1) I believe that police need to be held accountable when they commit violence and misconduct..
2) I also belive that police need to be respected, well trained, and confident. By doing this it means that communities will be safer.
3) And I belive that when police kill someone in the process of doing their job in a profession way according to their training, they should be protected by society. Killing people is sometimes a necesary part of being a police offier (this is true in any civilized country).

We need to look at the trade-offs. It is a fact (borne out by research) that stronger police activity leads to lower rates of violent crime (including rapes, murders and assaults). It is also a fact that police are more likely to stop, interrogate and kill a Black person than a White person. These can both be true at the same time.

The anger on this thread is from people who can only look at one side. When you do this, it makes the world seem simple, but it ignores solving real problems and leads to unintended consequences.

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@neptuneblue,

Whatever.

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@maxdancona,

You keep talking about the extremes but you are the biggest offender of that mentality. Keep talking, it makes me laugh to see you get your ire up defending your own defenseless claims.

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1. Police do an important and sometimes dangerous job where at times they are called to make quick life or death decisions. They need respect and support from the communities they serve as well as training and resources.

2. Police kill unarmed Black people at a rate that is too high and in circumstances that are sometimes clearly unjustified. In addition, minority communities often feel targeted by police and subject to systemic racism. Police need to be held accountable when they unjustly use force.

Can either Neptune or Oralloy accept that both of these are true?

The right only looks at the police point of view. The left has been demonizing police without considering the effect this may have on public safety.

A real solution will take into account both the needs of police and the concerns of minority communities.

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@hightor,

Hightor,

There is solid research evidence that increased police activity leads to a decrease in violent crime. You are correct that I can show research linking the current increase in crime with Black Lives Matter (although violence directed at police has increased).

My hypothesis is that demonizing police will lead to a less efficient police response and that more crime would be a likely result. I don't have proof, but it still seems pretty likely.

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@farmerman,

Farmerman, I hear things from a police officer's perspective because of my son. Because I belive that police are important and should be treated well (as they act professionally) I think that the police perspective is pretty important.

Police officers feel demoralized. They feel unsupported. They feel like political pawns.

My son used the body cameras as an example of something that Cambridge MA police are upset about. It is true that body cameras lead to a 75% decrease in citizen complaints against police. It is also true that any police officer will tell you that citizen complaints against police are often bogus(not always but often).

The political left will continue to demonize the police at their peril. You can call for reform without demonizing police... and that is what they should do.

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@maxdancona,

Of course I accept these both are true, you moron.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Can Oralloy accept that both of these are true?

maxdancona wrote:

1. Police do an important and sometimes dangerous job where at times they are called to make quick life or death decisions. They need respect and support from the communities they serve as well as training and resources.

True.

maxdancona wrote:

2. Police kill unarmed Black people at a rate that is too high

I don't know if this is true or false.

maxdancona wrote:

and in circumstances that are sometimes clearly unjustified.

True. But those circumstances are rare.

maxdancona wrote:

In addition, minority communities often feel targeted by police and subject to systemic racism.

This may well be true. But I do not agree that "how they feel" is at all relevant in any way whatsoever.

maxdancona wrote:

Police need to be held accountable when they unjustly use force.

True.

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