As violent crime surges, how does the left respond?

Interesting...

So when I bring it down to basic principles, Neptune and Oralloy both say they agree (with only minor quibbling over the details). I feel like we have accomplished something meaningful.

If we all are in basic agreement, then there is no need for nasty arguments.

Then why do you start it?

My opening post is a topic that interests me. Crime is going up. The left runs the political risk of being seen as anti-police. I suspect that the extreme rhetoric coming from the left may have a real negative impact on public safety that they will be given responsibility for.

That's why I started the thread. If you don't find the topic interesting, why are you here?

To figure out why'd you think it's just the left's problem to answer.

Is that a serious question? Or are you just here to pick a fight. It should be obvous from reading my OP. It is rhetoric from the left that is attacking the police.

The only thing that's obvious is your naivety. That's not a question, its an observation.

1. Okay. I am part of what you call the left.
2. How do you want me to respond?

Hightor reply: Are you certain that this is directly correlated with political and popular pressure on the police, and not just circumstantial? The pandemic has caused enormous changes in the way low-income families and communities function — closed schools, unemployment, lack of childcare, death of family elders, covid-relief cash payouts, and a basic atmosphere of uncertainty. Add to this the ubiquity of firearms and it's easy to see many other factors at work.

I am part of the left and I obviously disagree with your silly assertion.

Or, tackling systemic racism does not mean accepting more crime.

I don't recall the left ever disagreeing with this particular assertion.

1. I agree that demonizing good cops would be a bad idea.
2. On the other hand, bad cops should be called out for what they are.
3. I believe that even the good cops don't like the bad cops.
4. I also believe that good cops should be recognized, applauded, and commended for the good work they do.


1. This particular phrase has shown to have different interpretations to different people.
2. I personally thought it was a bad idea to call for defunding the police.
3. I would have preferred terms like reforming the police.
4. And when I say reform, I mean spell out each specific reform in specific details line by line.
5. If the term was to reallocate police funding, that would have been a better term than defunding the police.

You are the only person here who is trying to start anything.

Max is here for intelligent discussion (at least up until the point where he flees the thread).

You're here only to spout childish name-calling.

That's rich, coming from you. Any chance to bash the left and here you are. If Max flees his own thread than it wasn't an "intelligent" discussion to begin with. And again, the only one who is childish on this thread is you.

It's a shame that you pollute threads with this sort of nonsense.

You are the shame of America.

If you read my posts, you will notice I am critical of both the left and the right. In my opinion both sides of the political spectrum have been taken over by the extremes. On policy I favor the left. I don't like the absolutist and ridiculous rhetoric.

She's just here to pick a fight. Stay safe and keep listening to the doctors.

You are twisting things.

You can fight systemic racism without demonizing police, or justifying violence. The problem is the extreme rhetoric coming from the left. This is t the same thing as "fighting racism".

In my opinion the link between the demonization of police and the increase of crime makes perfect sense. We already know that decreased police activity leads to an increase of crime (there is solid research on that). When you oppose and limit police activity, it only makes sense that crime will go up (as it has).

My real point is that the extreme rhetoric coming from the left is ridiculous and damaging. The extreme want a simple narrative that they will apply iregardless of the facts with no concern for the consequences of their position.

That isn't a problem with being politically left. That is a problem with being extreme.

I think it is you who are twisting things. I AM going to demonize police when they cannot or will not stop murdering black people. It really IS that simple Max. Don't continually gloss over that fact that the police need policing.

You are lumping an increase of crime SOLEY on a decrease of police activity. That simply just isn't true, it's rhetoric designed to illicit a response to garner support to blame the left. It is your extremism that I'm calling into question.

Again you only blame "extreme rhetoric coming from the left" and take sides with the right, only to disregard the failures of the right and their increased participation of violent actions within our country. Yet you stay quiet on how that's even more "ridiculous and damaging."

You're right. The problem is extremism. And you're part of the problem.

Well yes, that's a characteristic of extremism in general. But how influential do you think this extremism really is? I don't think that many Democrats identify with the extreme left. Neither Warren nor Sanders fit the description. I don't think the extreme left is nearly as prominent among Democrats and left-leaning independents as the extreme right is among Republicans.

I think Warren and Sanders fit the description.

And the Democrats are just as extreme as the Republicans are.

Protecting yourself when a black person is trying to kill you is not in any way murder. That's called self defense.

Rhetoric lifted from the right-wing narrative pushed by Republicans!

Tell that to:

Dante Wright, age 20
Rashard Brooks, age 27
Daniel Prude, age 41
Breonna Taylor, age 26

And many, many more who do not fit your narrative.