World War 3. Has it begun?

If you look in your dictionary, you can also find the definition for "ridiculous."

C.I.
It is obvious that Brown is trying to bait us by being purposely obtuse. He is intelligent enough to understand definition of terrorist.

CAIR

The Council on American- Islamic Relations
453 New Jersey Avenue, S.E.
Washington, D.C. 20003-2604

Tel: 202-488-8787

Fax: 202-488-0833

E-Mail: [email protected]

URL: http://www.cair-net.org



MUSLIM CONDEMNATIONS OF THE SEPTEMBER 11 ATTACKS

The following document is a compilation of condemnations of the September 11 attacks. The articles, press releases and news clippings represent a sample of worldwide Muslim condemnation of these attacks and of terrorism in general. Most of the documents contain only excerpts of these condemnations. A document containing the full text of these condemnations would be much longer.

Included in this document are a few interviews and articles written by Muslim scholars refuting Bin Laden's theology and use of religion to justify attacks on innocent civilians. The purpose of including these articles is to show that Muslims went beyond just condemning the attacks. They also took and continue to take active steps to combat extremism and the exploitation of religion for violent political purposes.

There are many more such articles and efforts easily available on the internet, scholarly journals and newspaper archives.

CAIR statements on the events of September 11

"We condemn in the strongest terms possible what are apparently vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.

"All members of the Muslim community are asked to offer whatever help they can to the victims and their families. Muslim medical professionals should go to the scenes of the attacks to offer aid and comfort to the victims.

September 11 statement by the CAIR

"We at the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR), along with the entire American Muslim community are deeply saddened by the massive loss of life resulting from the tragic events of September 11. American Muslims utterly condemn the vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all American in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts."

CAIR full page add, Washington Post, September 16.

"American Muslims, who unequivocally condemned today terrorist attacks on our nation, call on you to alert fellow citizens to the fact that now is a time for all of us to stand together in the face of this heinous crime."

September 11 letter to President Bush, signed by the leaders of the American Muslim Alliance, the American Muslim Council, the Council on American-Islamic Relations, the Muslim Public Affairs Council, the Muslim American Society, the Islamic Society of North America, the Islamic Circle of North America, the Muslim Alliance in North America, and American Muslims for Jerusalem. These groups represent most of the seven million Muslims in the United States.

We are no less American than we were on Sept. 10. I was born in the United States. I took my first steps on this soil. I have been a ball boy for the Chicago Bulls. I have been to four U2 concerts. I am a second-year law student specializing in international human rights. I and my 7 million Muslim brothers and sisters are contributing members of American society.

Two members of President Bush's Cabinet are of Arab descent. It was a Muslim who was the architect for the Sears Tower. Islam is the fastest growing religion in America and in the world. We are doctors, lawyers, engineers, mechanics, teachers, and store owners.

We are your neighbors.

Arsalan Tariq Iftikhar, Midwest Communications Director, Council on American-Islamic Relations, St. Louis, Mo.

Images of World Trade Ccenter Buildings after ramming of airplanes by the Arab Terrorists





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On September 11, 2001, some dozen and a half Arab Muslim terrorists who are supposedly members of Al- Qaeda (The Base) run by Saudi fugitive Osama bin Laden hijacked four U.S. commercial airlines from Boston, Newark, and Dulles Internation Airport in Washington D.C. They slammed three planes -- two against World Trade Center's Twin Tower and one against a portion of Pentagon Building in Virginia suburb of D.C. The fourth plane crashed down in rural western Pennsylvania. The loss of innocent lives and damage to property was horrendous. An estimated over 6,000 lives were lost in the terrorists attack in New York City alone. All 19 terrorists were Muslims from several Arab nations.

Muslim Terrorists Anger Muslims
NewsMax.com Wires
Monday, May 3, 2004
CAIRO, Egypt - Car bombings in Saudi Arabia. A chilling tale of a foiled al-Qaida plot in Jordan. A firefight in the Syrian capital.
With attacks such as these, which targeted or resulted in the deaths of Arab civilians, Islamic militants have angered not just their enemies but also the very Muslims they claim to champion.

"These people do not have a specific logic, and unfortunately, we are facing a group of insane people," said Imad Shuaibi, a Syrian political analyst, summing up the sense of fear and frustration in Damascus after unidentified attackers last week set off a bomb and then fired bullets and grenades at Syrian security forces in a diplomatic neighborhood. A Syrian gym teacher caught in the crossfire was killed, along with two attackers and a policeman.

Jordanians likewise expressed fear, denounced terrorism and rallied in support of their government after state television aired a videotape last week of suspects admitting to planning a chemical attack that could have killed 80,000 people.

In the face of such outrage, militants now appear to be distancing themselves from terrorism at home, recognizing it could cost them support.

A man who identified himself as Musab al-Zarqawi, the alleged mastermind of the Jordan plot, denied that there were plans for a chemical bomb in a statement posted on a militant Islamist Web site.

"The [allegation] that there was a chemical bomb to kill thousands of people is a mere lie. God knows, if we did possess it, we wouldn't hesitate one second to use it to hit Israeli cities ..."

Al-Zarqawi, believed to be a close associate of Osama bin Laden, is also wanted by the United States for allegedly organizing terrorists to fight U.S. troops in Iraq on behalf of al-Qaida. He remains at large.

Another denial followed the suicide car bombing of a government security building in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia late last month that killed five people and wounded 148, among them children from nearby homes.

A man claiming to be al-Qaida's top agent in Saudi Arabia vowed in a tape posted on a Web site known for its militant Muslim content that there would be more attacks on Americans in the kingdom while distancing the extremist network from the attack on the Saudi institution.

Days after the threat, at least six Westerners, including two Americans, were killed Saturday by unidentified gunmen, apparently Muslim extremists, who attacked an oil contractor's office in western Saudi Arabia.

Abdullah al-Taimani, a 13-year-old Saudi, was wounded in the back by a grenade fragment after stumbling into a car chase that followed Saturday's shooting. He had been headed to a mosque for prayers.

"These people are not Muslims. What they have done will only land them in hell," Abdullah's father told reporters as he sat at his son's hospital bedside Sunday.

The militants made an unusual and horrific appeal to recruit young Saudis, dragging the bloodied corpse of a Westerner through a high school parking lot and urging the students to join their Arab brethren in a holy war in Iraq.

They appear to have badly miscalculated the response. School officials said some of the boys ran from the scene crying; others spoke of nightmares. "This is not right," said a traumatized 18-year-old. "This is un-Islamic."

Saudi authorities have cracked down on accused militants since of string of terror attacks that began with coordinated suicide bombings at Riyadh housing compounds last May that killed 34 people, including eight Americans. The crackdown has included official and clerical denunciations of terrorism and the thinking behind it.

As part of the campaign, two prominent Saudi clerics charged with advocating violence were shown on Saudi television late last year renouncing Islamic militancy and attacks against innocent people.

Arab intellectuals have organized conferences devoted to denouncing militancy and portraying true Islam as tolerant and peaceful.

The grand sheik of Al-Azhar, the Cairo mosque and university considered by many to be the world's leading seat of Sunni Islam learning, has repeatedly denounced al-Qaida and scoffed at its argument that the West threatens Muslims.

For a minority of Muslims, though, the angry rhetoric of the extremists has more resonance. It speaks to their uncertainty about the future at a time of confusing economic and social change and to their pride in their religion at a time when they feel it is being vilified as terrorist.

The failure of the region's dictators to meet the desires of their citizens, who want better lives and more democracy, has been cited as a reason extremists find willing listeners to their argument that radical Islam can provide solutions. Fouad al-Hashm, a columnist for the Kuwaiti daily Al-Watan, said Arab governments themselves encouraged fundamentalism in an attempt to shore up the legitimacy of their regimes.

"It is time that religion goes back to the hearts and spirits and mosques, and leaves politics," al-Hashim said.

IMO WWIII began on 9/11, and possibly even on the day the attack on the USS Cole took place. Maybe if more realized that "terrorists" (insert your own definition here) are out to kill as many infidels as possible in order to make the world in their image, regardless of where they live (US, UK, Spain, etc...), then maybe we can fight this war in order to win it, rather than wait for someone to push their respective button.

Tomrr,

Why start at 9/11 and the USS Cole? The second worst act of terrorism on US soil (and until 9/11 the worst) was the bombing of the Oklahoma City Federal building.

If there were a WWIII against terrorism (assuming you classify this attack as an act of terrorism), wouldn't Oklahoma City be the starting point?

ebrown_p

You are clutching at straws. How can you equate one criminal act of an American in the US with the many acts of terrorism being perpetrated by Moslems on an ongoing basis around the world?

Let me clarify. I am not saying that Muslims don't use "terrorism" (using my definition of terrorism)... nor am I saying that terrorism (again, my definition) is ever justified.

I am arguing that statements that Muslims commit "almost all" of the acts of terrorism is ridiculous with any look at the facts or any definition of "terrorism".

Now, the dictionary definition of terrorism (as per American Heritage via dictionary.com)...



I don't particularly like this definitition because it covers the tactics used in nearly any guerilla war from Congo to Sri Lanka to Iraq to the American Revolution. It also implies that the acts of nations against people can't be considered terrorism since the term "unlawful" implies agains the laws of the state.

My definition for terrorism would be...



I am not being obtuse... and I have the balls to lay out and defend a definition of terrorism. Without a definition of terrorism, there is no way to debate the slanderous statements you are making.

Do you all think by hiding behind a term you are unwilling to define you can avoid having to defend your statements against facts?

Interesting question.

I don't think so. If weather has cyclical swings, then why not political-philosophical views? Or the importance of religion in geopolitical behaviors?

No, even with the broadest possible definition of world in world war, and assuming that the means of the war and the weapons used are not relevant to the question.

Au, I am not clutching at straws. There are many acts of terrorism being perpetrated around the world. Some of the are commited by Moslems, some are commited by non-Moslems.

You are the one clutching at straws-- literally... you are picking out all of the acts of terrorism commited by Moslems and ignoring the terrorism commited by others.

It is a cowardly trick to refuse to give a definition of terrorism. If you did, we can talk about the terrorism that is being commited by non-Moslems. As it is, you can avoid facing the facts that could be objectively weighed with a definition.

Brown wrote


I suggest you put that baloney between two pieces of bread. It may make a tasty sandwich. What is commonly considered terrorism at this time is in the main presently being carried out by Moslems? Can you deny that? Who are the suicide bombers?

Asymetrical warfare perpetrated to achieve a political goal.

Terrorism.

I don't think eBrown realizes that just because she/he has recently discovered there are terrorists in addition to Muslims, doesn't mean that others aren't aware of that fact.

If we focus only on Muslim terrorists then our arses are going to get blown up by non-Muslim terrorists. There are plenty to go around.

http://www.nyu.edu/classes/keefer/joe/reuben.html

Now, is it WW3? Could be. We called it World War I but it had a reasonably restricted set of theatres. It was centred in Europe but it also manifested itself in the Middle East, North Africa and a couple of other places where the main colonial powers who were battling it out in Europe had proxy battles in the colonies. I believe also that the North American mainland may have been affected by German submarines in WWI but I'm not sure.

WW2 was more of a world-involved war. We remember it by where it didn't happen rather than where it was actually happening. For example, parts of Australia were not only bombed by Japanese air raiders but Australia was under threat of Japanese occupation. I think it qualifies as a world war but it was markedly different from WWI.

So is WW3 not the thirty-second thermonuclear holocaust I was threatened with as a child? Is WW3 a slow-burning struggle between ideas rather than trade interests or economic expansionalism? Could be, could very well be. Anyway it's an interesting topic.

Commonly Considered? Come On Au!!!

I have asked for a simple definition. Not a hard request and a prerequisite of any logical debate on the issue. And now you want to use the term "commonly considered"? Commonly considered by whom??? This is completely ridiculous.

If you had a good argument to make, and the balls to defend it against the facts, this is what would happen.

You would give me a definition of "terrorism" or you would accept mine. Then we could look at the acts of violence being commited in the world - use an objective measure to decide if they are "terrorism" or not and see if they are all being commited by Moslems.

Look, I have thrown down the guantlet very clearly. In my opinion your point of view is complete hogwash.

Either step up with a definition and be prepared to defend it with logic or drop any pretense of reason.

Brown

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=55568&highlight=

http://www.loc.gov/rr/international/hispanic/terrorism/peru.html

It seems to me that terrorism is a tactic, or a label for a tactic, usually by folks without a state and a standing army, and that it is understood to include destruction to a civilian population on purpose as opposed to collateral destruction; suicide bombing is one type of it. It may be true that that one type is mostly done, presently, by people who are muslims. I don't know the data.

States and standing armies do provide terror on occasion.

As to it being WWIII right now, I don't think so.

ebrown_p wrote

I think I clarified which type of terrorists I was talking about when I made the statement.

The OKC bombing was for a completely different set of reasons. But we can argue that later.
I stand behind my statement that there are a faction of people, who seem to be all radical Muslims, that for whatever reason in their minds, are hell bent on attacking anyone that share their beliefs on how the world is viewed and how we worship God. Seems pretty cut and dry to me....but apparently not to everyone.

Is there then a difference between "terrorism"and "guerilla warfare" ? I need to add that this isn't a rhetorical question or some form of disingenuousness on my part, it just occurred to me to ask it.