Equal representation in Prison

@maxdancona,

Well, heck yeah! Now, should we railroad more women, or just turn out a bunch of convicted crooks?

@roger,

The question, of course, is why are so many men in prison compared to women?

Some writer suggested (I can't find it now and I am paraphrasing). There are more men in prison. There are more men running corporations.

Maybe it is for the same reason.

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The rate of imprisonments May or may not relate to the amount of people involved in commission of crimes as well as those who get caught (as opposed to those who might get let go) and that convicted. I have no reason to believe that women are AS INVOLVED with criminal activity. I’m not saying women are rarely involved but just less involved as are men

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@Ragman,

In an equal society wouldn't you expect women to be just as "INVOLVED with criminal activity" as men?

Why wouldn't they be?

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@maxdancona,

I want to know why more obese people aren't in prison. I sense some serious size discrimination at work. Sure, blame the skinny people. I want to see more corpulent inmates in the Crowbar Hotel. It's only fair.

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@hightor,

I suspect that the percentage of obese people in prison is very close to the number of obese people in the general population (at least when they enter). Do you have any reason to think otherwise? Do you have any evidence that the number of obese people in prison doesn't match the general population?

93% of federal inmates are men. Just under 50% of the general population are men. That's an awfully big difference, don't you think?

In an equal society, I would expect 50% of inmates to be women. Can someone tell me why this wouldn't be the case?

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Children?

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@RABEL222,

RABEL222 wrote:

Children?

Are you suggesting that in an equal society, men can't raise their own children while their mothers are in jail, but that women can raise their own children while their fathers are in jail?

That doesn't make sense.

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@maxdancona,

I wonder if he isn't asking if children should be equally represented in prison.

Of course, the real question should be about convicted criminals in prison, not some gross percentage of the entire population.

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@roger,

There are two valid logical reasons that there would be more men in prison than women.

1. There is something intrinsically different between men and women that causes men to commit more crimes even in an equal society.

2. Inequities in society push women away from crime or men toward crime. Or, there is something unequal that makes women less likely to be caught or convicted.

There are fewer children in prison because children are intrinsically different than adults. I don't think women can be compared to children this way.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

In a new study examining diet, physical activity and obesity in prison populations, researchers at the University of Oxford in England have found that in most cases, male prisoners are less likely to be obese than men in the general population. Female prisoners, on the other hand, were more likely to be obese than other women — at least, in the U.S. and Australia.

latimes

Quote:

Current literature highlights the complex relationship between imprisonment and weight. A significant amount of evidence exists to suggest that obesity levels are similar or lower in prison population compared to the general population. Future research might explore more intensively the various factors influencing prisoners’ weight change within prison, including food, diet, activity levels and other relevant factors in relation to weight change, using both quantitative and qualitative methods.

obesity research and clinical practice

But I've also seen studies which implicate prison diet as a cause of obesity in prison — so while there may be lots of fatties behind bars we'd have to know what condition they were before incarceration.

Are overweight people less likely to commit crimes?

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@hightor,

My dear Hightor,

The question being asked is whether in an equal society there will be equal numbers of men and women in prison. Right now the ratio is quite unequal (i.e. 10 men for 1 woman).

A simple "yes" or "no" answer to this question would be a good start. You seem to be evading the question.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

You seem to be evading the question.

I recognized it as one of your rhetorical questions for which you already have an answer.

There's no such thing as an "equal society" so your premise are skewed from the beginning.

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@hightor,

It is not a rhetorical question. It is a hypothetical question.

Obviously this hypothetical question is interesting because it shows a basic cognitive dissonance in the ideological narrative of the left.

This shouldn't be surprising, these contradictions are part of any ideological narrative. Life is complex and simple one-sided political viewpoints that allow for no questions may be comforting they aren't realistic. The world too big and wonderful for that.

The reason I like this question is that it challenges dearly held beliefs about equality. People want to believe that woman and men should be equally represented in corporations and politics and engineering and in the all of the places people want to be. And yet people don't want women and men to be equally represented in prison (or homeless etc.).

The cognitive dissonance that Hightor is experiencing (as he evades the question) is this.

Either he

1) accepts that there is an intrinsic difference between men and women that causes women to be less prone to criminal behavior than men.

2) or, he accepts that as society gets more equal, the percentage of women in prison will get higher (just as the percentage of women as engineers and CEOS will) as the roles played by men and woman balance out.

The first option goes against a basic ideological precept. The second option seems emotionally undesirable.

And that is why he evades the hypothetical question.

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@maxdancona,

Didn't say anything like that. You have a habit of interpreting other peoples thoughts. My post referenced the fact women are more family oriented. Dont generally go out drinking and fighting because they are more responsible to family.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

In an equal society wouldn't you expect women to be just as "INVOLVED with criminal activity" as men?

And you’ve hit the nail on the head.

Maybe that will be the measure of an equal society, when women have the same opportunity to commit crime as men.

Now you’ve admitted we live in an unequal society that is skewed against women you can stop crying about how hard it is to be a man and instead commit yourself to women’s rights.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

It is not a rhetorical question.

"A rhetorical question is a question that requires no reply, either because the answer is obvious or because the asker already knows the answer."

Quote:

Obviously this hypothetical question is interesting because it shows a basic cognitive dissonance in the ideological narrative of the left.

No it doesn't. It shows your obsessive need to embellish your self image as the only critical non-ideological thinker on A2K.

Quote:

People want to believe that woman and men should be equally represented in corporations and politics and engineering and in the all of the places people want to be.

Well, I don't believe that. I don't believe that people "want" to believe that, and I don't believe it myself. It's not a relevant concern and I'm content to let the dynamic unfold over time without trying to determine the outcome.

Quote:

Either he

1) accepts that there is an intrinsic difference between men and women that causes women to be less prone to criminal behavior than men.

2) or, he accepts that as society gets more equal, the percentage of women in prison will get higher (just as the percentage of women as engineers and CEOS will) as the roles played by men and woman balance out.

Nothing in my response evinced "cognitive dissonance" — because I ignored your hypothetical example.

Sure, there are intrinsic and extrinsic differences between men and women — the opportunities and cultural expectations are different and the traditional roles in families are different in nearly all modern societies.

There is simply no such thing as an "equal society". Never has been, never will be. Gender differences are only one difference. There are differences between some individuals of the same sex that are greater than the differences between individuals of the opposite sex. The same holds true with similarities between males and females.

Quote:

And that is why he evades the hypothetical question.

No. As I said, your question is rhetorical, your premise is misconstrued from the start, and this is just another one of your games.

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Interesting

- Rabel gave a perfectly reasonable answer... that there may intrinsic differences between men and women leading to them making different choices which explains the different rates of incarceration.

- Izzy gave another perfectly reasonable answer... that social inequality may push women away from a life of crime.

- Hightor has gone on the warpath. I don't know really see a point one way or the other.

I tend to agree with Rabel. I believe there are intrinsic difference in men and women that even in a hypothetical equal society will lead to demographic differences in how people make life choices.

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@maxdancona,

you wrote:

- Hightor has gone on the warpath.

Only because you continually impute positions to me which I do not hold.

you wrote:

People want to believe that woman and men should be equally represented in corporations and politics and engineering and in the all of the places people want to be.

You don't want to believe that. I don't want to believe that. We're "people", right? What people are you speaking of?

you wrote:

I believe there are intrinsic difference in men and women that even in a hypothetical equal society will lead to demographic differences in how people make life choices.

To which I responded:

I wrote:

Sure, there are intrinsic and extrinsic differences between men and women — the opportunities and cultural expectations are different and the traditional roles in families are different in nearly all modern societies.

1 Reply

Equal representation in Prison

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