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The Derek Chauvin Trial

 
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2021 09:12 pm
@oralloy,
I have no opinion on the matter, except that I assume the Army hierarchy knows what it is doing.

This is not an area in which I have the slightest bit of expertise.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2021 09:16 pm
@maxdancona,
I don't claim any expertise either. But I'm not suggesting training to the extent that more important training suffers.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  2  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2021 09:27 pm
Quote:
Slate's Explainer: Does the U.S. military still use bayonets?

By Forrest Wickman
The Washington Post Aug 9, 2014

Is the bayonet an obsolete weapon?

At the third and final presidential debate Monday night, Mitt Romney accused Barack Obama of reducing the number of ships in the U.S. Navy. President Obama responded, "Well, governor, we also have fewer horses and bayonets." Does the U.S. military still use bayonets much?

Yes. All Marines learn to use bayonets during their basic martial arts training. Some of this training takes place on the Bayonet Assault Course, upon which Marines are unleashed to bayonet everything in sight. Learning proficiency in basic bayoneting techniques is part of qualifying for a tan belt, which is required of every recruit. Marines are expected to learn to attach and remove the bayonets from their rifles quickly, so that they might swiftly initiate a charge.

While the bayonet dates to the 17th century, it has evolved through technological innovations over the years. In 2003, the Marine Corps replaced its standard-issue bayonet with a longer, sharper model, the OKC-3S. The new model, designed by New York's Ontario Knife Co., was also more effective when brandished as a hand knife - not to mention more ergonomically correct. Perhaps more vitally, the blades were also better able to pierce body armor, a concern particular to modern warriors. More than 120,000 bayonets were commissioned to supply one to each Marine, at an estimated price of $36.35 each, or $4,362,000 total. In addition to potential use in hand-to-hand combat, bayonets are said to be useful for keeping prisoners under control and for "poking an enemy to see whether he is dead."

The Marines aren't the only branch of the military to equip its soldiers with bayonets. The Army issues the M9 bayonet knife, which has been in use since the 1980s, but troops have moved away from the detachable knives in recent years. In 2010, the Army began to scale back on bayonet drills in favor of calisthenics, perhaps a wise move given that the soldiers rarely carry bayonets on their rifles, and since the last U.S. bayonet charge was in 1951. Others, however, have still found use for the bayonet charge in recent years. Just last month a British soldier was honored for a bayonet charge on the Taliban that he led in 2011. This charge was reminiscent of another British bayonet charge in Basra, Iraq, in 2004. In 2011, Col. Moammar Gadhafi was also reportedly killed by a bayonet stab to the rear.

While the use of the bayonet is rare, the use of horses is even rarer. The military still maintains the historic 1st Cavalry Division out of Fort Hood, Texas, and the division's horse detachment still sometimes mounts up for the occasional charge - but these charges tend to take place only as part of parades, historical ceremonies, and fairs.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2021 09:39 pm
You GIs and Marines get to have all the fun. In the Navy we carried inoperable M16s to carry when marching. We were allowed ten shots at a target using a thirty calibre rifle (I think I remember that's what it was). No hand to hand combat whatever. When we had drills where they practiced loading a nuclear rocket (they refused to say if it was real) I carried on my hip a forty five pistol that I was never trained to use. In short, the ship was the only real weapon we were trained to use. (I joined the Navy instead of the Army because I didn't want to dig holes in the ground to sleep in)
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2021 09:41 pm
@BillW,
Washington Post wrote:
Others, however, have still found use for the bayonet charge in recent years. Just last month a British soldier was honored for a bayonet charge on the Taliban that he led in 2011. This charge was reminiscent of another British bayonet charge in Basra, Iraq, in 2004.

I figured there would still be the rare one in a million scenario.


Washington Post wrote:
In 2011, Col. Moammar Gadhafi was also reportedly killed by a bayonet stab to the rear.

No. He was raped with the bayonet before being killed.

He was killed with a 9mm pistol pressed to his forehead.

It's a more humane death than he deserved, but I'm satisfied that at least justice was finally done for the victims of Pan Am 103.

By the way, it's interesting how the Marines these days are modernizing themselves into island hopping sea infantry so if the worst happens and we end up at war with China they can start seizing China's artificial islands and turning them against the Chinese military.

Of course, just like with the Cold War the goal is not to fight the war, but to deter the war by being prepared to fight it.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2021 09:50 pm
@edgarblythe,
In pugil stick training I got my bell rung good because I got a cheap shot from some on my side beyond peripheral vision sucked me up on my temple.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2021 10:01 pm
@BillW,
Right in the middle of the war they drafted my older brother. He spent his entire hitch at Fort Hood because they found out he was good at building platforms.
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2021 10:50 pm
@edgarblythe,
A guy I went into Basic Training with had a really great singing voice, even a cappella. Found out a few years back he became an Army representative with the USO shows for his entire time in uniform. Some people get all the luck.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2021 11:19 pm
My ship never visited the war until months after I went home.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2021 11:22 pm
I knew some people on the Turner Joy. They did not precisely admit how bogus was the Gulf of Tonkin incident because they were told to dummy up. But their faces and actions said it all.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2021 11:24 pm
@edgarblythe,
It matters not, you did your time! I would have gone stir crazy on a ship, I spent 3 days in Key West, Florida once and thought I would die from claustrophobia.

I knew a marine who "stormed the beaches" only to find a bunch of Sea Bees on the other side of the dunes sunning themselves.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2021 11:25 pm
@BillW,
Standing sonar watches was pure torture. Specially since the guy you're with outranks you and so makes you watch the screen while he snoozes.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2021 12:07 am
@BillW,
BillW wrote:

It matters not, you did your time!

Sounds like my Army experience. You go where they send you and do what they tell you.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2021 03:35 am
@BillW,
BillW wrote:

In pugil stick training I got my bell rung good because I got a cheap shot from some on my side beyond peripheral vision sucked me up on my temple.


I got a shoulder injury during pugil stick training that I ended up having arthroscopic surgery for years later.

If you defeated someone, they would immediately match you up with someone they thought tougher. I’m not a particularly tough guy, but I am a big fellow, so they matched me against the orneriest fuckers - one of whom caused my shoulder injury.

I still laugh to this day about one moment. When they started a ‘match’ they would say “Give us your war scream!” I let out the most blood-curdling roar I could muster, snarling, spittle flying...
The gentle soul they first matched me with looked like he was going to pee his pants and run. And he emitted a barely audible “Oh. My. God.” I think he fell as if shot with one blow. Funny ****, man.
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2021 09:29 am
@snood,
I faced the same tactics, including the required war scream. I beat one on one twice, that's when I had to face two on one. I can't see them really getting rid of pugil stick training, they loved it to much!
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2021 11:23 am
@BillW,
I once packed my seabag wrong. "Blythe didn't tuck in the tie-ties. Why didn't you tuck in the tie-ties?"
I was mortified because I expected to be commended for excellence.
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2021 11:37 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

I once packed my seabag wrong. "Blythe didn't tuck in the tie-ties. Why didn't you tuck in the tie-ties?"
I was mortified because I expected to be commended for excellence.

Tsk-tsk 🐲
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Thu 17 Jun, 2021 06:00 pm
Making Juneteenth a holiday is okay. It does point out how the white people kept up slavery after it was legally abolished. But none of the symbolism going on now does a thing to end white supremacy.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 17 Jun, 2021 06:05 pm
@edgarblythe,
No need to end something that does not exist in the first place.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Reply Thu 17 Jun, 2021 06:11 pm
@edgarblythe,
I hear you. Not sure exactly what your point is here, calling the setting aside of a day to recognize black people’s actual emancipation date “symbolism”. Do you consider the efforts to introduce more accurate teaching about this country’s racism (critical race theory/ 1619 project) also as symbolism? What would you consider to be an authentic and effective action that should be taken to “end white supremacy”?
 

 
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