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The Derek Chauvin Trial

 
 
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vikorr
 
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Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2021 06:45 pm
@edgarblythe,
Ah yes, the ever mysterious problem solvers....never able to be named...and somehow brighter than all other activists put together. And you know they are so much brighter because activists are almost never willing to give detail about how their cause would work, expecting the mysterious problem solvers to do it. Again, problem solving is not a mystery.

Still, neither the UK, nor Australia seem to have the severity of the US issues when police respond to mental health crisiis, and the number is escalating.
That is the UK,but there was an article in my local paper around 2 years ago, that police mental health calls for service had been rising 11% per year - so not far off.

But perhaps you would consider a solution like this:
Or this:
Neither would cost as much as the solution you propose.
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vikorr
 
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Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2021 06:54 pm
@snood,
Quote:
You can’t expect Edgar or anyone else to produce a detailed map of how police reform should be implemented.
I don't expect a detailed map - I expect some thought about how it would work in practicality. And this is nothing more than what I myself did - listing many things that would need to be done to achieve it...which then came with a whole heap of easily identifiable issues.

There is a problem in todays world where people say 'this is the solution'...without giving any thought to whether or not it would work, then blaming government or its institutions for the problems. Identifying problems is good. Andif you want to complain about the problem - offer a workable solution - a solution that shows you've given some thought to the solution.

It used to be called constructive criticism. Identify the problem, and offer a workable alternative.
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vikorr
 
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Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2021 07:01 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
I said before that there are people able to handle demographics better than me. You can ridicule the sentiment. That's okay.
Even if you come up with something wrong - that isn't a reason to not try at all. In trying, at least we come up with our own reasons as to why something would, or would not work. It then provides a basis for actual discussion.
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vikorr
 
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Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2021 07:44 pm
@Mame,
I see it differently - I think schools should only be for core education. They have limited time, and anything outside of core teachings must detract from the time they have for core subjects. This is a negative impact.


The other negative impact if schools teaching children how to be decent people, is a long term one:

- if parents no longer have to do it, most will stop doing it (the ones that teach them the wrong lessons & the ones that would otherwise teach them the right lessons)
- meaning the children no longer have the role model knowledge of how to teach their own children how to be decent people (and this lack of skill will carry over into many other life lessons)
- meaning the children's children will now need more life lessons at school (ie. it can start a vicious downhill trend)

Essentially - it's a good short term solution that has dire long term consequences, placing more and more burden on the school system that is meant to be about core education - leading to an ever increasing negative impact on core education.

This same issue runs through other areas of 'governed' society, taking away the need for people to problem solve, and so less people do it...leading to less ability among the children to do so (as they see less examples) and the ingrained expectation amongst kids that the government will solve it (as exampled by their parents expectations).

The idea to me, is well intentioned, but has long term draw backs - as does each area of life where government relieves the population of criticial thinking, problem solving, communicating well, etc. It all negatively impacts society over the long term, creating an ever increasing number of problems.

There is a reason axiety is spiralling out of control. People with good problem solving skills know they can solve their own problems (ie. they tend to be less anxious). People with good conflict management skills tend to be less anxious (they cause less conflict, and know how to navigate it better). People with good child raising skills tend to be less anxious/angry/frustrated (from the challenges of raising children).

And yes, I'm old enough to see these trends occurring over several decades, and to me it seems obvious where it is going. The more government tries to solve, the more it has to solve (as people offload their skills & responsibilities to govt). It's not a good path. I would rather see an empowered people, resiliant as they can rely on their own skills, with a government that is there when all their attempts have failed, or the situation is beyond them...a government that is there when they actually need help (rather than just want it)
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vikorr
 
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Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2021 08:23 pm
@snood,
Quote:
I think policing in the US needs drastic reform
I agree.
Quote:
I don’t need to write Vikorr a goddamn position paper to have a valid opinion
I agree.

I asked a poster to show they put some thought into how their proposed solution would work.

There is a very real habit out there for people who complain to not put any thought into their 'solutions' - expecting it to just miraculously work. So I don't think it unreasonable to ask a person to articulate some thoughts on how their proposed solution would work. This after all, is the only way a solution can be discussed with any substance.

Why this makes you angry, I don't know.

Quote:
Maybe it would be a pointless exercise carried out for no other reason but to give Vikorr more fodder for his endless, officious, pointless critique.
Are you ignoring that I said, even if it were wrong, it gives a place to start an actual discussion from?

Currently all we have is 'do this'...but no discussion about how it would work, or whether or not it would work (other than my critique). So it's not a discussion, but rather, a one sided 'do this, but don't ask me how it will work, and don't point out or discuss any problems with my solution' type of conversation.
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vikorr
 
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Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2021 08:41 pm
@snood,
Strangely enough, despite the Angst in your post, it seems I'm the only one in this thread that has posted links to strategies that do work, when it comes to police reform, and nominated & explained other strategies to help reduce the force used by police. And the only issue I have with Edgars is a financial one (how they would finance it). So once again, the anger suprises me.
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vikorr
 
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Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2021 09:08 pm
@glitterbag,
Yep, I could understand how that would annoy you. Although I had mentioned several times prior to that comment that many people offer solutions that they never explain in any way how they would work, asking for some commentary on how his solution would work that Edgar kept not giving.

Quote:
One other thing, Edgar and I and other US citizens will carry the weight of the cost, so don't worry your pretty little head about the money or who will pay.
It doesn't worry me in the least - I was asking a poster how he thought his solution would work, finance wise. Is this wrong to do?
vikorr
 
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Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2021 09:09 pm
@snood,
Again - I don't see the reason for your anger. Because we appear to think along similar lines in terms of police reform.So is it because I engage in criticial thinking, and ask others to show the same?

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vikorr
 
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Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2021 09:20 pm
@snood,
Quote:
Your “issue with Edgar is a financial one”?
Missed this. It should be read:
Quote:
My only issue with Edgars (solution) is a financial one”
There's an 's' in there that you left off. The 'solution' should have been implicit from the previous sentence.
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