11
   

Do Christians have to obey the Old Testament Laws?

 
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  0  
Reply Fri 9 Apr, 2021 09:30 am
@izzythepush,
Actually, no.

You engaged me, whenever you downvoted any comment that I spent upwards of an hour writing.

You engaged me, when you wrote this post like I'm bothering you, when I have never at any point done anything but read comments and debate to them.

You're like a child, saying "don't make this personal" when you very much make things personal. You make it personal, when you take my comments, which were entirely about debate, personally.
You make it personal, when you say nearly exactly the same thing to me as she said to me.
You don't want to be bothered? Then simply don't be bothered. I don't get notified by email when you respond to my posts. Apparently you should shut off that feature. I am concerned with the debate only. You have gone out of your way to downvote everything I write, while your groupies upvote your inane (and sometimes insane) comments.

I'm not gonna go out of my way to avoid your comments. Because you don't matter. Only that matters is that your comments are more frequent than other comments, and sizably more ignorant.

So, back to topic. Jesus called a law to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Take that to heart. If you want to be left alone, don't respond, don't downvote, don't engage me at all. If you want to be pestered, then do all of the following. Simple.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  3  
Reply Fri 9 Apr, 2021 09:32 am
@bulmabriefs144,

bulmabriefs144 wrote:

I'm responding to posts, not you. So no, I won't "take the hint" because you don't matter.


I admit it. I don't quite see the distinction.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 9 Apr, 2021 09:33 am
@izzythepush,
For the record, I'm not disgusted by anyone.

Disgust is a repellent emotion.

It is to say that someone else is a worm that you want to squish. What does that say about you that you would treat other human beings like that?

I feel sad for you.
0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 9 Apr, 2021 09:35 am
@roger,
The distinction, is that I don't really know who I am responding to.

You could be roger, izzythepush, Jesus, Buddha, or Muhammad.

My concern is only "Is this point of view right? Is it wrong? Is it mostly right, but I need to clarify points?"

If you're not my friend, and not my enemy, only the argument matters.

Which is why downvoting for something not distinctly bad (and I have written some comments I'd admit were bad) is so offensive to me. It takes an impersonal comment, and makes it personal.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Apr, 2021 09:41 am
@roger,
Me neither, one can respond to the topic or an individual post.

I’m responding to your post because I’m addressing what you’ve said and I’m talking to you.

I could always reply to the topic question if I wanted to respond to what you’ve said without talking to you.

It’s not rocket science.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2021 06:27 am
@izzythepush,
Because you don't read people's comments, maybe?

Their effort, their responses, is not a comment to you. It's a comment with regard to what you say.

I don't really know you so I cannot say this for certain. But I've met people who believe wholly in identity theory, that is, that it completely doesn't matter what someone has to say, but who it is. These dumb retards will reject scientists, doctors, economists, etc not on the basis that there is a flaw in their idea, but because "Fox News hosted it" or because "CNN said it." I wonder if you can even fathom what it it feels like to have your thoughts and feelings always downvoted simply on the basis of who you are? Probably not, since you seem to be lacking in empathy and other key human virtues ( such as basic sense). Identity theory and its ugly cousin, identity politics, are a fungus growing on a healthy human reason, stifling even basic understanding of another person.

This is what the difference between who says something and what they say is. If can't understand that, there's no use talking to you. I assume that's what you want anyway. Not that I'd notice. I respond to comments.
0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2021 06:39 am
@izzythepush,
The option here, is Reply, or Back to Post.

This is not always a Reply to All option, and I literally do not care if it adds a tag. And you are missing the point.

But since you so "graciously" asked to be left alone, let's do that.

Do Christians have to obey the Old Testament laws? I asked a Jew earlier. They themselves believe the Gentiles under Christianity are under a separate covenant. When pressed, we agreed that the Noahide laws (which are simple rules of decent conduct, such as not going around raping and murdering or eating live animals) are similar to the basic idea of Ten Commandments. The celebration of Purim is over defeat of the ungodly Amalekites (who have no respect for the Noahide laws) so basic rules of human decency distinguish us from them. On the other hand, kosher law and Levite law is for Jews only.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2021 04:31 pm
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:


The option here, is Reply, or Back to Post.

This is not always a Reply to All option, and I literally do not care if it adds a tag. And you are missing the point.

But since you so "graciously" asked to be left alone, let's do that.

Do Christians have to obey the Old Testament laws? I asked a Jew earlier. They themselves believe the Gentiles under Christianity are under a separate covenant. When pressed, we agreed that the Noahide laws (which are simple rules of decent conduct, such as not going around raping and murdering or eating live animals) are similar to the basic idea of Ten Commandments. The celebration of Purim is over defeat of the ungodly Amalekites (who have no respect for the Noahide laws) so basic rules of human decency distinguish us from them. On the other hand, kosher law and Levite law is for Jews only.



What are you talking about?

In the Old Testament...as part of the LAW...it says that the god of that New Testament considers homosexual acts to be an abomination...and anyone engaging in homosexual acts forfeits his life.

Are you suggesting that does not apply to Christians? Are you suggesting that the "new covenant" essentially says, "Oh, don't worry about that. The god no longer cares about that?"

And when Jesus is reported to say, " "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets. I have come, not to abolish them, but to fulfill them. Of this much I assure you; UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY, not the smallest letter of the law, not the smallest part of a letter shall be done away"...are you suggesting he did not really mean that?
bulmabriefs144
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2021 06:45 am
@Frank Apisa,
Have you noticed we don't stone people to death for it though? In fact, this is a country where LGBT people can enjoy a number of freedoms, yet they still demand they are being persecuted because it is logistically impossible to carry out a sex change surgery for free without forcing people to do it against their will. Sorry but just because you're poor doesn't make you oppressed. Likewise, there are consequences of being gay (STDs, AIDS, etc) but again we don't stone people for it. Despite still calling it a sin.

Have you noticed that Americans more bacon per capita than like anyone?

Have you noticed we eat Swedish meatballs, a clear violation of meat and milk kosher law?

That we wear blended fabrics, and if I (who was born male and decided not to have a sex change, because I considered it spaying) decide to shave my face, put on nylons and makeup, heels, a bra, and a blouse and skirt, I have the all-clear to walk down main street with nobody bothering me.

Yes, you are correct, Jesus says he did not abolish the law or the prophets but to fulfill them. Yet Jesus himself defied the Sabbath laws. He ate with unwashed hands. He welcomed sinners. He healed one of those Canaanite women.

This is not Pauline revisionism, as you put it, this is Jesus himself.

So what do you make of this? I make of it that the actual law of God is not about eating pork. The law that Jesus died for is the law of mercy and of treating people as you would treat yourself.
The thing is, this generation hates itself with a vengeance. I condemn tattoos, sex changes, piercings, drug abuse, not because I am a prude who thinks you shouldn't do these things. But because I understand that this is a generation that hates itself, that cuts up its own body and tries to drug itself to sleep or to death, and reacts strongly to criticism because they love others as themselves but don't love themselves.

Jesus didn't teach "selflessness" , that's fascism. That's something that has been a bane of the twentieth and heading into the 21st century. Stop it! Stop beating yourself up. You wanna walk around in a dress? You do not need to mutilate your body to do it.

Jesus would die again if it would help this generation. But this generation is willing to stick a vaccine inside that may render them sterile. They are willing to take birth control for years, oblivious of what it does to the body. They are willing to cut out their sex organs and have them reshaped as the opposite sex. This generation is willing to die already and dead-end their generation. And willing to kill those with opinions that get too personal.

But Jesus taught, "I desire mercy, not sacrifice." Same as Hosea. The Jews were too into Jewish laws. But Western countries have thought abandoning laws will solve the problem. No, that just leaves you without any hope, as you hurt yourself trying to seek a meaningful life. Abandoning the law is not the answer. Nor is living according to the law. Between those two, we must find an answer, either by reading the NT and deciding from that, or coming up with our own interpretation.


Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2021 10:49 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:


Have you noticed we don't stone people to death for it though? In fact, this is a country where LGBT people can enjoy a number of freedoms, yet they still demand they are being persecuted because it is logistically impossible to carry out a sex change surgery for free without forcing people to do it against their will. Sorry but just because you're poor doesn't make you oppressed. Likewise, there are consequences of being gay (STDs, AIDS, etc) but again we don't stone people for it. Despite still calling it a sin.

Have you noticed that Americans more bacon per capita than like anyone?

Have you noticed we eat Swedish meatballs, a clear violation of meat and milk kosher law?

That we wear blended fabrics, and if I (who was born male and decided not to have a sex change, because I considered it spaying) decide to shave my face, put on nylons and makeup, heels, a bra, and a blouse and skirt, I have the all-clear to walk down main street with nobody bothering me.

Yes, you are correct, Jesus says he did not abolish the law or the prophets but to fulfill them. Yet Jesus himself defied the Sabbath laws. He ate with unwashed hands. He welcomed sinners. He healed one of those Canaanite women.

This is not Pauline revisionism, as you put it, this is Jesus himself.

So what do you make of this? I make of it that the actual law of God is not about eating pork. The law that Jesus died for is the law of mercy and of treating people as you would treat yourself.
The thing is, this generation hates itself with a vengeance. I condemn tattoos, sex changes, piercings, drug abuse, not because I am a prude who thinks you shouldn't do these things. But because I understand that this is a generation that hates itself, that cuts up its own body and tries to drug itself to sleep or to death, and reacts strongly to criticism because they love others as themselves but don't love themselves.

Jesus didn't teach "selflessness" , that's fascism. That's something that has been a bane of the twentieth and heading into the 21st century. Stop it! Stop beating yourself up. You wanna walk around in a dress? You do not need to mutilate your body to do it.

Jesus would die again if it would help this generation. But this generation is willing to stick a vaccine inside that may render them sterile. They are willing to take birth control for years, oblivious of what it does to the body. They are willing to cut out their sex organs and have them reshaped as the opposite sex. This generation is willing to die already and dead-end their generation. And willing to kill those with opinions that get too personal.

But Jesus taught, "I desire mercy, not sacrifice." Same as Hosea. The Jews were too into Jewish laws. But Western countries have thought abandoning laws will solve the problem. No, that just leaves you without any hope, as you hurt yourself trying to seek a meaningful life. Abandoning the law is not the answer. Nor is living according to the law. Between those two, we must find an answer, either by reading the NT and deciding from that, or coming up with our own interpretation.


The question is NOT what we do...but whether or not Christians have to obey Old Testament laws.

If you are trying to convince me that Americans, in general, and Christians, in particular...are more hypocritical than one would expect...

...save your time. No need to make that point. It is something obvious to most of us.

Jesus said specifically that he was not here to change the law...not a letter of it...not one stroke of one letter of it until Heaven and Earth pass away.

Are you arguing that Heaven and Earth no longer exist?

Are you arguing that Jesus was full of ****?

Are you arguing that Paul's words are more important than the words of Jesus?

What the hell are you arguing?
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2021 10:57 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

What the hell are you arguing?


Whatever supports their far right racist views.

That’s why they’re twisting themselves in knots desperate for some sort of validation.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2021 11:09 am
Christians don't have to do anything. What's the worst that can happen?
Some "holier than thou" know-it-all will point a sanctimonious finger at them and spout a bunch of 2000 year old maxims that nobody believes anymore. Who cares? Do your thing, my brethren in Christ, all is forgiven.
0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  0  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2021 08:00 am
@Frank Apisa,
I'm not trying to make that point.

The point that I'm making is that secular humanism (what we call atheism) is often offered as a solution to the moral law, sorta "You don't have to do these laws anymore, because God doesn't exist."

Only... they haven't really created a solution to the law. I've lived for nearly forty years now, and I can tell you what I've noticed about atheism. But the most important to topic is that they have promised to do away with the law, but haven't gotten rid of anything. So you don't obey the ten commandments. But you judge everyone (including yourself) based on how successful they are. Pretty soon, despite everyone having labor-saving devices, you are working most of your life, either to compare yourself to others or because you've got too much stuff. Then there's another sacred cow of secularism, environmentalism. Sure you recycle but it isn't enough. You need to save the rainforests. And now it turns out all that recycling you did was sent overseas where it ended up in the oceans, so time to clean the waters. And you supported solar power and wind power, but the turbines chopped up a few birds who couldn't see these blades were actually moving and thought to perch on them. And the solar power has graphene panels which break into sharp shards that get into the water and kill fish. Not only is everything you have done not enough, but it turns out that it's completely the wrong thing. For COVID, some people are wearing more masks. Will you be safe enough? What about four? Six? Ten?!? Will you (ever) be safe enough? The failing of atheism is that it never addresses the problem of having only the standards of the created world and other humans, and no matter what you do, it will never be enough. And it will often be wrong. Lawlessness didn't set you free, it made you a slave.

The only way to be free of the law is to fulfill it. Only Jesus did that, by dying on behalf of our sins. The Christians that forget to mention this are part of the problem why we are pursuing lawless behavior.
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2021 08:47 am
@bulmabriefs144,
Secular humanism isn't atheism and while some secular humanists are atheists many are not. There are even religious people who identify as secular humanists.
Quote:
I've lived for nearly forty years now, and I can tell you what I've noticed about atheism.

Yeah, well you obviously never noticed what it actually is.
Quote:
But the most important to topic is that they have promised to do away with the law, but haven't gotten rid of anything.

Where do they make this "promise"?
Quote:
Then there's another sacred cow of secularism, environmentalism.

Which has nothing to do with secularism. What makes the desire for clean air and water a secular phenomenon?
Quote:
The failing of atheism is that it never addresses the problem of having only the standards of the created world and other humans, and no matter what you do, it will never be enough.

Atheism isn't compelled to address anything. Atheism isn't not, by itself, an operative philosophy which seeks to right wrongs, free slaves, or heal the sick. The problems you perceive are results of capitalism, and those problems are derived from human nature. Christianity, long concerned with the consequences of sin, and much more popular around the world than atheism, aided and abetted the growth of capitalism and bears responsibility for all the social ills you list. It couldn't defeat or even temper human nature.
Quote:
Only Jesus did that, by dying on behalf of our sins.

That's just cant*. He was a victim of a lynching. There is no mechanism by which one person can die on behalf of the world's sins. It's meaningless. Blood sacrifice is barbaric and has never been shown to be effective.

*cant. ( kænt) n. 1. insincere talk, esp concerning religion or morals; pious platitudes. 2. stock phrases that have become meaningless through repetition. 3. specialized vocabulary of a particular group, such as thieves, journalists, or lawyers; jargon. 4. singsong whining speech, as used by beggars.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2021 06:26 am
@bulmabriefs144,
Quote:
Suppose you have a friend. That friend turns their back on you because you sound like some family member they've also decided to unfriend. You never get a chance to apologize, never get any closure. You're just stuck at home for a year with unresolved emotions. What do you do?
(a) Try to get back in touch with them even though they basically blocked you?
(b) Leave things alone? This would seem sensible, but you are literally going crazy and not eating or sleeping properly.
(c) Try to come to terms with things? Probably what you'd eventually have to do, but it involves months of coping with things that you can't really act on. Or therapy you can't afford.

This is hard. The Biblical answer is to Let them go/ let go of them.
Not only is it Biblical, it works to your own good.

Consider the possibility that If you simply can’t find peace without them, you 'have another god before you.' You sound familiar enough with the book to remember the appropriate verses.
0 Replies
 
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2021 03:55 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Do the scriptures say that it is an abomination for married couples to practice oral and anal sex?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jul, 2021 02:24 am
@The Anointed,
The Anointed wrote:

Do the scriptures say that it is an abomination for married couples to practice oral and anal sex?


Why do you ask?
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 21 Jul, 2021 03:02 am
@Frank Apisa,
I simply want to know what you think of people who practice oral and anal sex.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jul, 2021 03:03 am
@The Anointed,
The Anointed wrote:

I simply want to know what you think of people who practice oral and anal sex.


That is not what you asked.
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 21 Jul, 2021 03:16 am
@Frank Apisa,
Close enough, married couples are people, whether male and male, female and female, or male and female unions. So then, what is your answer?
 

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