Peaceful protests versus violent mobs: A primer

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This should be obvious, but some people (primarily Trump supporters) are having trouble understanding this. So I though I would spell out what a peaceful protest is, and what is something other than peaceful.

Each of these points I am making hold no matter what the political ideology of the person in question. A MAGA supporter is the same as a BLM supporter.

1) People who are standing in an open public space (i.e. a place they are legally allowed to be) yelling and holding signs are peaceful protesters.

2) People who are yelling at police officers, or public officials or passerby are peaceful protesters.

3) People who attend a BLM rally, or a Trump Rally, or a Feminist or Nazi or Anarchist or any other rally are peaceful protesters (provided they don't do anything violent).

3) People who attack police officers are violent mobs. And the people who are part of a group to attack police officers are part of the violent mob whether or not they actually do the punching.

4) People who rush past police lines to get into a restricted space are violent mobs. The people with them are part of the violent mob.

5) People who break windows to get into a restricted space are violent mobs. The people who rush in with them are part of the violent mob even if they didn't actually break the windows.

Hopefully that is clear.

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@maxdancona,

Let me propose this principle, I am thinking of a name for it... for now I will call it the equality principle.

Quote:

The principles should apply equally to leftist groups (i.e. Black lives matter) and conservative groups (i.e. MAGA).

Let's consider this situation...

Aaron, Beth and Charlie are in a public group that is very angry after listening to Speaker X in Rally Y. The march to a government building. Aaron punches a cop as the mob surges forward Beth follows him. Aaron and Beth enter the government building into a restricted area where they cause damage. Meanwhile Charlie stays behind, chants some angry slogan and then goes home.

In this example Aaron and Beth are part of an angry mob. Once they surged past the police line, they cease to be peaceful protesters.

And, in this example Charlie is a peaceful protester.

This is equally true whether these three are Trump supporters coming from a Trump rally angry about election fraud, or BLM supporters coming from a rally angry at police killings.

This should be obvious. But, there it is.

1 Reply

maxdancona wrote:

1) People who are standing in an open public space (i.e. a place they are legally allowed to be) yelling and holding signs are peaceful protesters.

Agreed.

maxdancona wrote:

2) People who are yelling at police officers, or public officials or passerby are peaceful protesters.

Agreed.

maxdancona wrote:

3) People who attend a BLM rally, or a Trump Rally, or a Feminist or Nazi or Anarchist or any other rally are peaceful protesters (provided they don't do anything violent).

Agreed.

maxdancona wrote:

3) People who attack police officers are violent mobs.

Agreed. But where did you learn to count?

maxdancona wrote:

And the people who are part of a group to attack police officers are part of the violent mob whether or not they actually do the punching.

Strongly disagree.

If I am in a group of people, and some guy in my group suddenly attacks a police officer from out of the blue, I am not a party to that attack.

maxdancona wrote:

4) People who rush past police lines to get into a restricted space are violent mobs.

Strongly disagree.

maxdancona wrote:

5) People who break windows to get into a restricted space are violent mobs.

Strongly disagree.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

As long as you apply the same logic to Black Lives Matter protesters as you do to MAGA... I won't accuse you of being illogical.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

I do not fault BLM for their protest tactics.

I fault BLM for their goal of wanting to be allowed to murder police officers (and rape and murder white people) with impunity.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

I do not fault BLM for their protest tactics.

I fault BLM for their goal of wanting to be allowed to murder police officers (and rape and murder white people) with impunity.

This is a lie. One of the many examples of something you keep repeating even though it has been proven that you are factually incorrect.

I am logically consistent. When people say that MAGA supporters are Nazis who want to kill Black people... I say that is factually incorrect as well.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

This is a lie.

Wrong. It is the truth.

maxdancona wrote:

One of the many examples of something you keep repeating even though it has been proven that you are factually incorrect.

Wrong again. It has never been proven that I am incorrect about this.

It never will be either, as I am completely correct in all respects here.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

You are not logical enough to be proven incorrect. That's the problem.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

You are wrong in at least three different ways here.

First, you cannot point out any errors in my logic.

Second, if you could point out errors in my logic, that would prove me wrong (or at least I would need to shore up the holes in my logic before claiming to be correct again).

Third, the actual reason why you cannot prove me incorrect is the straightforward fact that I am actually correct.

What you are doing here is making excuses for the fact that you cannot prove me incorrect.

If you were actually capable of proving me wrong, you would do so instead of making excuses for your inability to do so.

2 Replies

@oralloy,

I have pointed out several errors in your logic. You are not logical enough to see them (actually I think it is your ideological extremism rather than your ability to do logic).

I started another thread on this topic.

https://able2know.org/topic/554988-1

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

I have pointed out several errors in your logic.

No you haven't. And you cannot cite any of these supposed occurrences of you pointing out errors in my logic.

maxdancona wrote:

You are not logical enough to see them (actually I think it is your ideological extremism rather than your ability to do logic).

I am capable of understanding any argument that you are capable of making.

maxdancona wrote:

I started another thread on this topic.

I'll get to it at some point. But it might be tomorrow.

0 Replies

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

What you are doing here is making excuses for the fact that you cannot prove me incorrect.
If you were actually capable of proving me wrong, you would do so instead of making excuses for your inability to do so.

Why don't we make it even easier for you. I'll assume the burden of proof and state outright that I can prove that I am correct.

The first step in my proof is the following claim:

BLM was formed to demand punishment for the deaths of Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, and Eric Garner.

Do you agree that that statement is true, or do I need to prove it?

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Start another thread, and I will show you how your argument is illogical.

Meanwhile, my response is here...

https://able2know.org/topic/554988-1#post-7099735

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Start another thread,

No.

maxdancona wrote:

and I will show you how your argument is illogical.

No you won't. My logic is impregnable.

maxdancona wrote:

Meanwhile, my response is here...

As before, I'll get to your new thread at some point. It might be tomorrow though.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Inpregnable?

I am sure not going coming near your logic without a condom.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Your failure to assault my logic speaks for itself.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

Your failure to assault my logic speaks for itself.

Your faulty logic isn't the topic of this thread. That's why I am not assaulting it here (otherwise we will get into another one of these ridiculous three page discussions about your fantasy IQ).

I am assaulting your logic here https://able2know.org/topic/554988-1. So far your logic isn't even trying to defend itself.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Your faulty logic isn't the topic of this thread.

You have a big mouth, but you can't back it up by pointing out any holes in my logic.

maxdancona wrote:

That's why I am not assaulting it here

No. The reason why you are not assaulting my logic is because it's impregnable.

maxdancona wrote:

otherwise we will get into another one of these ridiculous three page discussions about your fantasy IQ

That my IQ is 170 and is vastly higher than your IQ is no fantasy.

The direct cause of three-page discussions of my IQ is you bringing the subject up.

maxdancona wrote:

I am assaulting your logic here https://able2know.org/topic/554988-1 . So far your logic isn't even trying to defend itself.

My time is limited. Even staying at home all the time due to the pandemic, only a fraction of my time is free time. And only a fraction of my free time is going to be spent on a2k. If you keep starting new threads, you may need to wait a little while before I get time to read them.

But fear not. I'm heading there next after this post.

(Fixed your link.)

1 Reply

@oralloy,

The logic of any idiot is impregnable. This doesn't show your intelligence, it shows your ridiculous stubbornness.

If you ever said "hmmm, the progressives make a valid a valid point here..." I would regain some respect for you. Your posts are ridiculous, simply denying any fact that doesn't fit your simplistic world view.

Of course I can't point out the holes in your logic. You have created a little fantasy world for yourself where everything fits together perfectly for you.

2 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

The logic of any idiot is impregnable.

No it isn't. I demolish the logic of idiots all the time.

maxdancona wrote:

This doesn't show your intelligence, it shows your ridiculous stubbornness.

Wrong. The fact that you cannot poke any holes in my logic does in fact demonstrate my intellect a bit.

maxdancona wrote:

If you ever said "hmmm, the progressives make a valid a valid point here..." I would regain some respect for you.

I don't know if this counts as progressivism, but I do agree with the Democrats on higher taxes on the wealthy to pay for more social programs. It's one of the reasons why I stay in the Democratic Party.

That said, I am not going to pretend that they have made a valid point if they have not. If you do not respect me, that will not change the reality that you are incapable of challenging my facts and my logic.

maxdancona wrote:

Your posts are ridiculous, simply denying any fact that doesn't fit your simplistic world view.

You keep lying about me and my posts. I would prefer it if you stopped doing that.

You cannot cite a single occurrence of me ever denying a fact.

maxdancona wrote:

Of course I can't point out the holes in your logic. You have created a little fantasy world for yourself where everything fits together perfectly for you.

No, that's reality.

Reality is not a fantasy, and I did not create it.

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