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Peaceful protests versus violent mobs: A primer

 
 
neptuneblue
 
  3  
Wed 13 Jan, 2021 07:15 am
@Brandon9000,
Again, your reality is skewed.

Quote:
"Intended to cause violence can never be a criterion in court" and "Can reasonably be expected to cause violence" isn't a criterion either.


Yes, Brandon, it is. You cannot legally yell out "FIRE" in a crowded space as it tends to incite panic. And culpability in resulting harm in a "clear and present danger" concept will land you on the wrong side of the law.

Quote:
You cannot point to anything that Trump said that solicited violence,


There are many instances in Trump's speech that solicited violence, look it up for yourself. It's filled with key phrases that prove intent to harm. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-told-supporters-stormed-capitol-hill/story?id=75110558

Quote:
indeed, he told them to stop


Yeah, six HOURS and a few deaths later....

Quote:
all summer the nation was treated to countless acts of violence, theft, looting, etc.


Ok, I get that. But your comparison is apples to oranges. B&E shop windows and petty theft pales in comparison to storming a Federal building intent to stopping a legal proceeding. In which Trump told them that's what they needed to do, the mob INTENDED to stop the certification of the next President and they actually DID manage to get it delayed. That is a classic definition of insurrection.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Wed 13 Jan, 2021 07:51 am
@Brandon9000,
You are being silly.

Trump will be charged with incitement. Incitement is a crime. This doesn't really have anything to do with free speech.
Brandon9000
 
  0  
Wed 13 Jan, 2021 08:30 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
You are being silly.

Trump will be charged with incitement. Incitement is a crime. This doesn't really have anything to do with free speech.

Oh, I'd say it does have something to do with free speech since you seek to criminalize speech.

I have repeatedly asked you to show me a sentence that is an illegal incitement to violence. In fact you cannot because there is none. Previously, you presented "You have to show strength and you have to be strong," but then admitted that it is not illegal incitement to violence.

This is nothing more than a wet dream for Trump's enemies. I'm wrong? Show me one sentence or small group of sentences that is an illegal incitement to violence. You keep saying he may have incited violence. How? What was the statement?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Wed 13 Jan, 2021 08:33 am
@Brandon9000,
If any part of Trump's speech is determined by a court to be

1) intended to cause violence.
2) reasonable expected to cause violence.

Then Trump is guilty of incitement. This is a fact. Do you accept it? It goes both ways. I accept the fact that if neither of these things is true, than Trump is innocent of incitement.

If you don't agree with the facts, then it is silly to go on.

If you accept this, then I will show you what Trump said that might count as incitement.

I would like you to say either "Yes, I agree with these facts" or "No, I don't agree with these facts".
engineer
 
  3  
Wed 13 Jan, 2021 08:48 am
@Brandon9000,
Whether or not there is incitement is something a jury should decide. The Representative who wrote the article of impeachment is an expert in Constitutional law. You can argue that he is partisan, but so are you and you're not an expert. You should at least read the article of impeachment here.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Wed 13 Jan, 2021 12:04 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
Whether Trump's comments qualify is up for a jury to decide,

Let's start putting progressives on trial for random unsolved murders.

Whether they actually committed any of these murders can be left for juries to decide.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Wed 13 Jan, 2021 12:05 pm
@neptuneblue,
neptuneblue wrote:
You cannot legally yell out "FIRE" in a crowded space as it tends to incite panic.

Unless there actually is a fire. In that case it is OK to spread the alarm.


neptuneblue wrote:
the mob INTENDED to stop the certification of the next President and they actually DID manage to get it delayed. That is a classic definition of insurrection.

No it isn't. Insurrections are attempts to overthrow a government. This was a protest against leftist cheating.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Wed 13 Jan, 2021 12:07 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Trump will be charged with incitement.

Who is going to charge him?


maxdancona wrote:
This doesn't really have anything to do with free speech.

Sure it does. Progressives hate civil liberties, and this is just the latest example of progressives trying to violate someone's civil liberties.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Wed 13 Jan, 2021 12:08 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
Whether or not there is incitement is something a jury should decide.

Let's have juries decide whether progressives are murderers.


engineer wrote:
The Representative who wrote the article of impeachment is an expert in Constitutional law. You can argue that he is partisan, but so are you and you're not an expert.

Appeals to authority are logical fallacies.
InfraBlue
 
  3  
Wed 13 Jan, 2021 12:27 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

Appeals to authority are logical fallacies.

Not all of them are logical fallacies, as in this case.
neptuneblue
 
  3  
Wed 13 Jan, 2021 12:38 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
No it isn't. Insurrections are attempts to overthrow a government. This was a protest against leftist cheating.


You are incorrect. An insurrection is "a violent uprising against an authority or government."

oralloy
 
  -1  
Wed 13 Jan, 2021 12:40 pm
@neptuneblue,
Same thing.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Wed 13 Jan, 2021 12:41 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
Not all of them are logical fallacies, as in this case.

That is incorrect. They are all logical fallacies.
neptuneblue
 
  3  
Wed 13 Jan, 2021 12:45 pm
@oralloy,
It may have started out as a protest but it became an insurrection. And now the people responsible are either arrested/will be arrested, dead or will be impeached.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Wed 13 Jan, 2021 12:46 pm
@neptuneblue,
That is incorrect. A protest against leftist cheating is not an insurrection.

Protesters are often arrested.
neptuneblue
 
  3  
Wed 13 Jan, 2021 12:48 pm
@oralloy,
Depends on the charges.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Wed 13 Jan, 2021 01:43 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

This should be obvious, but some people (primarily Trump supporters) are having trouble understanding this. So I though I would spell out what a peaceful protest is, and what is something other than peaceful.

Each of these points I am making hold no matter what the political ideology of the person in question. A MAGA supporter is the same as a BLM supporter.

1) People who are standing in an open public space (i.e. a place they are legally allowed to be) yelling and holding signs are peaceful protesters.

2) People who are yelling at police officers, or public officials or passerby are peaceful protesters.

3) People who attend a BLM rally, or a Trump Rally, or a Feminist or Nazi or Anarchist or any other rally are peaceful protesters (provided they don't do anything violent).

3) People who attack police officers are violent mobs. And the people who are part of a group to attack police officers are part of the violent mob whether or not they actually do the punching.

4) People who rush past police lines to get into a restricted space are violent mobs. The people with them are part of the violent mob.

5) People who break windows to get into a restricted space are violent mobs. The people who rush in with them are part of the violent mob even if they didn't actually break the windows.

Hopefully that is clear.



This is the OP. After 4 pages, it still stands. I repost it because the current off-topic bickering is silly.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Wed 13 Jan, 2021 05:43 pm
https://comicallyincorrect.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/01-peacefull-protest-la-1080a-1050x750.jpg
neptuneblue
 
  3  
Wed 13 Jan, 2021 07:59 pm
@oralloy,
There was nothing peaceful nor patriotic about storming the Capitol building intent to stop the certification of a President.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Wed 13 Jan, 2021 08:05 pm
@neptuneblue,
That is incorrect. Most of the protesters were peaceful. All of them were patriotic.
0 Replies
 
 

 
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