The martyrdom that a Trump loss would create

@maxdancona,

The will of the people can product all manner of evil.

But I assume you would love to go back to slavery as that was the will of the people at one point.

Breaking down the door of a married couple in the middle of the night an dragging them off to jail due to the skin colors not matching was the will of the people.

The will of the people can set up a worst dictatorship then any other form of government.

No I do not have any respect for the Trump supporters nor the congress persons who go along with the so call will of the people.

If this does not correct itself then our current form of government had fail and we will need to find another form of government.where a low level con man can not do the degree of harm that is being done by Trump.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Silly person indeed.................

The facts are clear an can be found by googling them.

In debate, the person making the claims has the responsibility to defend them. You cannot make an assertion and then send your debating opponent out to verify that it's true. Only you have the responsibility to support your claim.

I didn't make a cumbersome request, only that you provide evidence that the incidents you described actually happened and that Donald Trump was involved. Your response is to flee. You have made two claims which you are unable to provide evidence for when asked. Therefore, I win.

But let me leave you with these two questions which it should be really easy for you to answer if you're right. The redlining incident involved HUD and was against a California bank called "CIT Bank." What was Trump's involvement and how much was the fine you referred to?

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@BillRM,

Quote:

The will of the people can product all manner of evil.

But I assume you would love to go back to slavery as that was the will of the people at one point.

Breaking down the door of a married couple in the middle of the night an dragging them off to jail due to the skin colors not matching was the will of the people.

The will of the people can set up a worst dictatorship then any other form of government.

You are making a strong argument against democracy.

If you don't believe in a form of government based on the "will of the people", what form of government do you suggest in its place?

Do you support a dictatorship (presumably a benevolent dictator)?

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
The will of the people can product all manner of evil.

But I assume you would love to go back to slavery as that was the will of the people at one point.

Breaking down the door of a married couple in the middle of the night an dragging them off to jail due to the skin colors not matching was the will of the people.

The will of the people can set up a worst dictatorship then any other form of government.

Quote:
You are making a strong argument against democracy candidates If you don't believe in a form of government based on the "will of the people", what form of government do you suggest in its place?

Do you support a dictatorship (presumably a benevolent dictator)?

LOL most of the US founders have the fear of the MOB and design all manner of safeguards into our system to prevent the mob from taking over.

They did not worship the will of the people at all!!!!!!!!

It is a shame that unlike the founders how few people take the time to study history even the history of our own nation.

In the era of the so call smoke full back rooms picking candidates Trump would had been filter out by the parties leadership for example and the hell with the will of the people.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Quote:

Since you live in a democracy... you should accept this.

Why are you addressing this to me? Where did I say that I don't accept that 43% of the people support Donald Trump? Where does the linked article say that? FFS, I was agreeing with you.

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@BillRM,

Brandon isn’t kidding he’s sealioning, making you waste your time providing links to established facts. It’s a favourite tactic of the far right and Brandon is a master of it.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

just comparing time sigs based on edt, keep moving, nothing here .

1 Reply

@farmerman,

I was just appraising BillRM Of another poster’s tactics of which he seemed unaware.

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@izzythepush,

Imgine, Trump becoms a political martyr. IS anyone reeeeaaaallllyyy gonna give a ****??? (Course then hes really not a martyr is he?--hes just another bum weve removed from office)

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@BillRM,

Quote:

LOL most of the US founders have the fear of the MOB and design all manner of safeguards into our system to prevent the mob from taking over.

They did not worship the will of the people at all!!!!!!!!

This is the reason we have the electoral college (and the reason that Trump won the election in 2016). There was an idea among our founding fathers that important decisions should be made by the worthiest members of society (who owned land, had an education, and were White males). They would let the common White males have a vote... but the actual decision would be made by the people who knew better.

Are you arguing that the electoral college is a good thing?

I tend to think that this rather undemocratic part of our democracy is outdated and probably was never a good idea. We should get rid of it.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
LOL most of the US founders have the fear of the MOB and design all manner of safeguards into our system to prevent the mob from taking over.

They did not worship the will of the people at all!!!!!!!!

This is the reason we have the electoral college (and the reason that Trump won the election in 2016). There was an idea among our founding fathers that important decisions should be made by the worthiest members of society (who owned land, had an education, and were White males). They would let the common White males have a vote... but the actual decision would be made by the people who knew better.

Are you arguing that the electoral college is a good thing?

I tend to think that this rather undemocratic part of our democracy is outdated and probably was never a good idea. We should get rid of it.

Sorry the EC as it now exist have little and I mean little to do with the intend of the founding fathers of how it should work.

It was met to be an independent elite body of men picked by the states to meet and decide who would be president not a group that must follow the will of the popular votes of the states voters.

Trump once more would had been filter out by such a group.

With the EC we now have the worst of both worlds a body that block the direct will of the people as a whole an grant too must power to small sub groups but not an independent body of any kind or manner.

Either we should do away with the EC or return it to the ideals of the founders.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

So when you talk about "safeguards" to protect the country from "the will of the people"... what are you talking about?

(Before you go there, I will point out that Amy Comey Barrett is about to be appointed as the 6th conservative justice as described by the US Constitution)

Are you really suggesting that the people you call "elite" should have more power than the rest of American voters?

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

So when you talk about "safeguards" to protect the country from "the will of the people"... what are you talking about?

(Before you go there, I will point out that Amy Comey Barrett is about to be appointed as the 6th conservative justice as proscribed by the US Constitution)

Are you really suggesting that the people you call "elite" should have more power than the rest of American voters?

Read the federal papers just to start with and the current system once more is the worst of both worlds.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

I have read the Federalist papers. You are making the argument, why don't you explain what your position is.

You seem to be arguing that some Americans should have more political power than other Americans... but you haven't exactly described how that would work.

Under the founding fathers, the people in power were White, male and owned land.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

I have read the Federal papers. You are making the argument, why don't you explain what your position is.

Clear how could I be more clear as either we should go back to the EC as it was met to be by the founders or we should go to the popular vote of the people as a whole.

Either system would had stop Trump becoming President.

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@BillRM,

The founders very deliberately concentrated political power with those who were White, land-owning and male.

What makes you think the system they envisioned would have stopped Trump from becoming President?

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Quote:

What makes you think the system they envisioned would have stopped Trump from becoming President?

Take note the better educated percent of the population did not on the whole supported Trump as his means of rallying the masses was hardly new by a few thousand years and most persons with any education would had known what the hell he was doing at once.

You would hardly need a narrow elite of the membership of a EC to had stop him just a population that have some background in history.

2 Replies

@BillRM,

One way to view democracy is that everyone gets an equal vote e (whether they are "educated" or not). It seems like you are offering an alternative to the "one person one vote" plan... but it isn't exactly clear what you are proposing.

Would you exclude "uneducated" people based on whether they went to college or not?

Or are you proposing some sort of "literacy test" that people would have to take before they are allowed to vote?

1 Reply

@BillRM,

If "education" is the problem.... we could try building "education camps" for people who have wrong views of history. When someone shows that they don't have the correct "background in history" they could be sent to these camps which would ensure that they developed proper ideas and opinions.

I believe that countries like China have had some success with this idea.

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@maxdancona,

So you wish to place the future of the nation completely into the hands of the uneducated who will follow anyone with the ability to play the mob by stirring up fears?

The founding fathers did not wish to do so but perhaps having a leader who pick almost at randoms small groups to be turn into threats and enemies that demand a thousand mile wall or a network of camps or other actions to keep us safe is a good idea.

Such behaviors however have a long history of not working out well for those nations that had adopt them but what the hell.

1 Reply

The martyrdom that a Trump loss would create

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