4
   

The real measure of a real economy ...

 
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Wed 16 Sep, 2020 01:37 pm
@vikorr,
What, we aren't discussing the cartoon?

What it illustrates is the fact that wealth is almost always discussed by how much wealth has accumulated without looking where it drifted up too and and who has less of it.

But just to entertain you: that guy has no drug habit or mental issues. An investment bank bought the company he worked for, stripped assets from it spun it off and weakened it failed. He lost his paycheck, his house, his car and now sleeps on a bench with newspapers for blankets, ironically enough headlined with stories about how the wealthy are doing very well and the economy is great.

There. All better.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Wed 16 Sep, 2020 01:50 pm
@izzythepush,
I found this they cherry picked the data. They have a semi-informed opinion.

https://endhomelessness.org/homelessness-in-america/homelessness-statistics/state-of-homelessness-2020/
Trends in Homelessness

Compared to the previous year, homelessness increased by 3 percent (not 1%) in the 2019 Point-in-Time Count. This marked the third straight year of national-level increases.

Despite this negative movement, the long-term trend has been downward. Overall homelessness has decreased by 12 percent since 2007, the year nation-wide data collection began. The current COVID-19 crisis has the potential to diminish or completely wipe out these modest gains.


Subpopulations. Existing progress has been uneven. Subpopulations prioritized in policy and practice (including funding decisions) have made the most impressive gains over the last decade. Veterans experienced the greatest decreases in homelessness—50 percent. <this figure alone can skew the numbers all by itself, take out veterins the 3% is naybe 4%> Other subpopulations have realized smaller reductions that, nevertheless, are larger than those in overall homelessness. They include people in families (29 percent), chronically homeless individuals (9 percent), and people experiencing unsheltered homelessness (10 percent).

One group is noticeably falling behind all others. Individuals have only realized a 0.2 percent reduction in homelessness over the last decade. Some are veterans, unaccompanied youth, and chronically homeless. These subgroups have been experiencing greater progress than individuals more generally—but they only make up a minority of the individuals population and help to mask the delayed progress of a sizable majority who are not veterans, unaccompanied youth, or chronically homeless.

Individuals are also solely responsible for the national-level increases in overall homelessness that occurred over the last three years. Individual homelessness increased by 11 percent over that period even as numbers for people in families continued to decrease. This upwards trend exists across a broad range of individuals, including the chronically homeless, men, women, and every racial/ethnic group.


Let alone that theses numbers are further skewed by the fact that some states improved in homelessness others like WVA sure didn't.

These guys know how to skim stats but not how to read them in context.

There's a bunch of state graphs on this site that show what I'm saying about states.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Wed 16 Sep, 2020 02:12 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
I am reading what you wrote... several times. I don't understand what your point is.

Every source we have posted says there is a long term downward trend in homelessness with a slight increase over the past couple years.

There is nothing wrong with us agreeing on the facts.

izzythepush
 
  2  
Wed 16 Sep, 2020 02:28 pm
@maxdancona,
You said that homelessness rose in the last two years.

If it’s rising it’s not on a downward trend.

bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Wed 16 Sep, 2020 02:32 pm
@maxdancona,
Max the disagreement isn't over the facts, its over the numbers.

1. its not a 1% increase its a 3% increase.
2. the 3% is skewed because of the push by the VA to get vets in homes over the last eight years - a 50% reduction.
3. It doesn't address the homeless who do not have any contact with a agency except the police.

The only thing we agree on is that homelessness is increasing at the same time wealth is increasing.

What else we disagree about is why.

https://endhomelessness.org/homelessness-in-america/homelessness-statistics/state-of-homelessness-2020/

from the National Alliance to End Homelessness:

Trends in Homelessness

Compared to the previous year, homelessness increased by 3 percent in the 2019 Point-in-Time Count. This marked the third straight year of national-level increases.

Despite this negative movement, the long-term trend has been downward. Overall homelessness has decreased by 12 percent since 2007,<Since 2007 there was a reduction until three years ago (hmmm ... three years ago - I wonder what happened then?> the year nation-wide data collection began. The current COVID-19 crisis has the potential to diminish or completely wipe out these modest gains.

Subpopulations. Existing progress has been uneven. Subpopulations prioritized in policy and practice (including funding decisions) have made the most impressive gains over the last decade. Veterans experienced the greatest decreases in homelessness—50 percent. Other subpopulations have realized smaller reductions that, nevertheless, are larger than those in overall homelessness. They include people in families (29 percent), chronically homeless individuals (9 percent), and people experiencing unsheltered homelessness (10 percent).

One group is noticeably falling behind all others. Individuals have only realized a 0.2 percent reduction in homelessness over the last decade. Some are veterans, unaccompanied youth, and chronically homeless. These subgroups have been experiencing greater progress than individuals more generally—but they only make up a minority of the individuals population and help to mask the delayed progress of a sizable majority who are not veterans, unaccompanied youth, or chronically homeless.

Individuals are also solely responsible for the national-level increases in overall homelessness that occurred over the last three years. Individual homelessness increased by 11 percent over that period even as numbers for people in families continued to decrease. This upwards trend exists across a broad range of individuals, including the chronically homeless, men, women, and every racial/ethnic group.

States. As with subpopulations, some states are making more progress towards ending homelessness than others.

Thirty states reduced homelessness since the previous year. Long-term trends further highlight the more successful stories. A majority (37) have reduced homelessness since 2007, with the most significant gains occurring in Michigan (-70 percent), Kentucky (-49 percent), and New Jersey (-49 percent).

Other states have more people experiencing homelessness than they did more than a decade ago. Fourteen have seen their numbers increase between 2 and 72 percent over that period. New and decisive action is necessary to ensure these states build real momentum in the fight against homelessness.
Geographic Regions Experiencing the Greatest Challenges

Identifying the regions with the most challenges informs nation-wide efforts to end homelessness.

Counts. One approach is to examine the locations with the highest homeless counts. They include states such as California, Florida, New York, and Texas as well as Continuums of Care (CoCs) serving New York City, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Texas’ Balance of State. These locations share a common characteristic—relatively large general populations. They include major cities and Balance of States encompassing broad expanses of land (with numerous towns and cities).

Fifty-six percent of people experiencing homelessness are in the five states that have the largest homeless counts. More than 1 in 3 are in the twenty CoCs with the highest numbers of people experiencing homelessness. Thus, much of this national challenge is located in a small number of places, with most jurisdictions having a much smaller problem to manage.



About who the Alliance is:

https://endhomelessness.org/who-we-are/
maxdancona
 
  1  
Wed 16 Sep, 2020 02:37 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
1. Getting veterans into homes is an example of homelessness being reduced. That is a great way to reduce homelessness. I don't know why you use the word "skewed" for that. How do you propose we reduce homelessness if we don't get people into homes?

2. I am not going to argue over 1% vs. 3%... they are both small numbers.

3. I agree that a times wealth and homelessness have both gone up. (At other times one has gone up without the other).

I am agreeing with you on the facts.

I am disagreeing with the political narrative.





maxdancona
 
  2  
Wed 16 Sep, 2020 02:38 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

You said that homelessness rose in the last two years.

If it’s rising it’s not on a downward trend.


I think you are just being difficult. The phrase was "long term downward trend". I refer you to a dictionary if you don't understand any of these words.
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Wed 16 Sep, 2020 02:41 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

izzythepush wrote:

You said that homelessness rose in the last two years.

If it’s rising it’s not on a downward trend.


I think you are just being difficult. The phrase was "long term downward trend". I refer you to a dictionary if you don't understand any of these words.

Right up there with the large rise in poverty. Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Wed 16 Sep, 2020 02:44 pm
@maxdancona,
And as Bob has pointed out the phrase is meaningless, long term could go back as far as you want.

You have said that homelessness rose by 1% in the last two years. Now if the rate that homelessness is increasing is going down say from 2%, homelessness is still increasing.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Wed 16 Sep, 2020 02:49 pm
@izzythepush,
You seem to have a problem when I agree with you.

I agree with you. What you are saying is factually correct.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Wed 16 Sep, 2020 02:53 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
2. I am not going to argue over 1% vs. 3%... they are both small numbers.


1. it represent under counting by 2/3, whats the difference between 1% of say 1.5 homeless students and 3%? The next time you get a 1.5 million buck, I'll take that meaningless 2/3rds away from you.

What it does is call into question your other facts. That's why I try to keep my opinions informed.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/homelessness-children-highest-decade-education-public-school-students

More than 1.5 million public school students nationwide were homeless at some point during the 2017-2018 school year, according to the report published last month. That figure was the highest recorded in more than 12 years.

The number of homeless students nationwide increased by a 15 percent margin from the 2015-16 and 2017-18 school years. The latest figure available, the 2017-2018 school year, shows that the number of public school homeless students more than doubled from 2004-05.

The data in the report did not include causes that contributed to the rise in homelessness for U.S. students. Christina Endres, one of the co-authors of the report, said to Fox News that the affordable housing crisis, the nationwide opioid epidemic, parental job loss, domestic violence and natural disasters all contribute to student homelessness.

“We’re the United States and we’re one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Families are not homeless people who are as visible. They’re not always discussed and people don’t know they’re there,” Endres said. “This is not just a California or a big city problem. A lot of states have an increase. We can’t address it until we know they’re there.”

Over the three-year period included in the report, the number of students in unsheltered situations at the time they were first identified as homeless increased by 137 percent nationwide. During the 2017-18 school year, 74 percent of students experiencing homelessness shared housing with others due to loss of housing or economic hardship. Twelve percent of homeless students resided in shelters. Seven percent stayed at hotels or motels, and 7 percent were unsheltered.

In 16 states, the homeless-student population grew by 10 percent or more during the three-year period covered in the report. In contrast, five states saw equally large decreases during the same period. Texas reported the largest increase in homeless students, with more than 231,000 students experiencing homelessness in the 2017-18 school year. Fourteen states recorded a decrease in homeless students.

The National Center for Homeless Education is based at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro and is contracted by the U.S. Department of Education to provide information on children's education and youth homelessness.

Endres explained that the report also signals a positive change: Public school liaisons are getting better at identifying students who are homeless. Under the 1987 McKinney–Vento Homeless Assistance Act, every public school in the U.S. has a trained liaison who connects students with federal, state and local resources, Endres said.

“It’s a two-sided situation. Part of it is bad news. But the good news is the liaisons are there,” Endres said. “This could mean the law is working well.”

Funding for the Education for Homeless Children and Youth (EHCY) program increased by almost $12 million between fiscal years 2015 and 2017, the report said.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Wed 16 Sep, 2020 02:54 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
This is a silly argument Bobsal. The difference between 1% and 3% is not worth typing another lette
maxdancona
 
  0  
Wed 16 Sep, 2020 02:58 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
What you are doing is silly. You are running to Google to find data that specifically supports your superficial argument.. Google will always find you want you want. It silly to think that means anything.

I don't even know what you are arguing. Quite likely all of these statistics are accurate. They simply are measuring different things.

If you have an actual point to make, please make it.

bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Wed 16 Sep, 2020 03:57 pm
@maxdancona,
What's another 5000 - 10000 homeless, right?

We may agree that homelessness was falling until three years ago(wonder what happened three years ago?) and that since its increased 1 to 3%.

I guess our conversations are over if we aren't going to let facts interfere with your "informed opinion".

bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Wed 16 Sep, 2020 04:04 pm
@maxdancona,
I hate google with a passion so I think we can agree your opinion was badly misinformed.

Where do you get your information from?

As for the discussion, I've been insulted by you quite enough for one day.

I stand by everything I've said and all the sources I've cited.
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Wed 16 Sep, 2020 04:06 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:

What's another 5000 - 10000 homeless, right?

We may agree that homelessness was falling until three years ago(wonder what happened three years ago?) and that since its increased 1 to 3%.

I guess our conversations are over if we aren't going to let facts interfere with your "informed opinion".



Ask the Democrats who ignore them in the cities they inhabit. Every once in a while they give them drugs and needles but other than that, nothing.
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Wed 16 Sep, 2020 04:14 pm
@coldjoint,
Is that why homelessness had dropped 10+% over the 10 or so years before they started going back up again 3yrs ago?
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Wed 16 Sep, 2020 04:16 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:

Is that why homelessness had dropped 10+% over the 10 or so years before they started going back up again 3yrs ago?

Is that why you can't source that bullshit?
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Wed 16 Sep, 2020 04:17 pm
@coldjoint,
CJ go up the page and try reading. Even Max agrees with the claim though he without providing any source, disagrees with the National Alliance to End Homelessness over whether its a 1% or 3%.

When I thumb you down I've not only read your post, I've looked at your sources. You obviously don't read anything of mine. You just thumb mindlessly.

I don't care whether you read my stuff or not. But I do read yours.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Wed 16 Sep, 2020 05:14 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
I don't think I have insulted you... but if you ever need to be insulted more, I am here.
 

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