10
   

This has to be scary - guy follows and confronts black woman

 
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2020 10:25 am
@jespah,
jespah wrote:
"Having your life destroyed" isn't a capital crime

Self defense is not about punishment for crime. It is about protection from harm.


jespah wrote:
and it's not a physical danger.

True. But it is something that people should be protected from.


jespah wrote:
It doesn't deserve deadly force.

Do white people have any option left other than deadly force?


jespah wrote:
Neither does someone trying to corral a dog, which is what happened here.

That is incorrect. That isn't what happened there. He threatened her.


jespah wrote:
Stand your ground and your home is your castle doesn't apply, either.

How about just plain old protecting oneself from being harmed?


jespah wrote:
As for the rest of it, do you even know what the word lynch actually means?

Yes. It's when a mob of people harm someone for an imagined offense without regard for any principles of justice.


jespah wrote:
Your response is always to reach for your gun.

What other option do white people have left when a minority tries to harm them?
engineer
 
  6  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2020 10:30 am
@jespah,
jespah wrote:

As for the rest of it, do you even know what the word lynch actually means?

He does, but he also knows that it evokes a reaction that distracts from the argument.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2020 10:46 am
@engineer,
Don't be so disingenuous. I am confronting the argument head on.
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  4  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2020 11:05 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

jespah wrote:
"Having your life destroyed" isn't a capital crime

Self defense is not about punishment for crime. It is about protection from harm.

Except you're behaving like a judge, jury, and an executioner. And I might remind you that the use of deadly force when unwarranted does not give you clean hands. It gives you the opposite.


jespah wrote:
and it's not a physical danger.

oralloy wrote:
True. But it is something that people should be protected from.

Protected from someone trying to get a person to follow the posted rules of the park? What's the response when someone actually brandishes a gun? Do you pull out your pocket tactical nuke? Going from zero to sixty on everything isn't just absurd; it's against the law here. Like I said, home as a castle and stand your ground don't apply. Pulling a gun means you're threatening violence. Period.


jespah wrote:
It doesn't deserve deadly force.

oralloy wrote:
Do white people have any option left other than deadly force?

So it's about race now? Of course they have options! Let's see. There's running. There's calling out to another person in the park. There's screaming for help. There's filming the incident and posting it on social media for all to see. Not every problem is a nail.


jespah wrote:
Neither does someone trying to corral a dog, which is what happened here.

oralloy wrote:
That is incorrect. That isn't what happened there. He threatened her.

So? I repeat, if she's so scared, why isn't she running?


jespah wrote:
Stand your ground and your home is your castle doesn't apply, either.

oralloy wrote:
How about just plain old protecting oneself from being harmed?

Removing oneself from the situation would be a lot more effective and likely safer. After all, your belief is that we should all be packing. What if he was? Pulling out a gun escalates the situation.

Or could it be that he's got too much melanin for the Second Amendment to apply?

Does the Second Amendment apply to Black people? Does it apply to people you don't like? Does it apply to the progressives who you despise?


jespah wrote:
As for the rest of it, do you even know what the word lynch actually means?

oralloy wrote:
Yes. It's when a mob of people harm someone for an imagined offense without regard for any principles of justice.

Oh, you sweet summer child. Here's what the Oxford Learner's Dictionary actually says about the matter.
Quote:
​the illegal killing of somebody, usually by hanging, by a crowd of people and without a trial

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/lynching#:~:text=lynching-,noun,Topics%20People%20in%20societyc2

But hey, you do you.

jespah wrote:
Your response is always to reach for your gun.

oralloy wrote:
What other option do white people have left when a minority tries to harm them?
I offered a bunch upstream. This appears to be a failure of imagination on your part. I'm sorry things are so - no pun intended - black and white for you.

And how about the actual incident that this thread is about (which isn't Amy Cooper at all)? Does the woman who was in her own neighborhood and threatened for simply existing, does the Second Amendment apply to her? What are her remedies? I bet you can think of several remedies which threatened Black people can exercise. Probably several without your favorite tool. Let's hear 'em.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 9 Jul, 2020 12:00 pm
@jespah,
jespah wrote:
Except you're behaving like a judge, jury, and an executioner.

Self defense is about protection. No punishment is intended.


jespah wrote:
And I might remind you that the use of deadly force when unwarranted does not give you clean hands. It gives you the opposite.

When someone has no other option, they have no other option.


jespah wrote:
Protected from someone trying to get a person to follow the posted rules of the park?

That's not what happened. The guy was threatening her. She had the right to protect herself from his threats.


jespah wrote:
What's the response when someone actually brandishes a gun? Do you pull out your pocket tactical nuke? Going from zero to sixty on everything isn't just absurd; it's against the law here.

The only option white people have under such a law is to ensure that they don't get caught.


jespah wrote:
Like I said, home as a castle and stand your ground don't apply. Pulling a gun means you're threatening violence. Period.

Considering the case of Jillian and Eric Wuestenberg, I no longer advocate white people brandishing a gun to ward off threats.

If a white person has to pull a gun, they need to shoot and then escape without getting caught.


jespah wrote:
So it's about race now?

Yes. White people are the ones being lynched for protecting themselves.


jespah wrote:
Of course they have options! Let's see. There's running.

If that option is possible, it is a good choice. It may not always be possible.


jespah wrote:
There's calling out to another person in the park. There's screaming for help. There's filming the incident and posting it on social media for all to see. Not every problem is a nail.

Those are bad choices. White people will be lynched for pursuing any of those options.

Calling out or screaming for help isn't too different from her choice to call the police. And look what's happened to her for that.


jespah wrote:
So? I repeat, if she's so scared, why isn't she running?

She was also trying to keep her unleashed dog from running over to the guy who was threatening them.

And she didn't understand that, as a white person, she would be lynched for calling the police.


jespah wrote:
Removing oneself from the situation would be a lot more effective and likely safer.

Yes, if that is possible.


jespah wrote:
After all, your belief is that we should all be packing. What if he was? Pulling out a gun escalates the situation.

Like they depict in westerns, if all parties have guns, you gotta be the first person to shoot accurately.


jespah wrote:
Or could it be that he's got too much melanin for the Second Amendment to apply?
Does the Second Amendment apply to Black people? Does it apply to people you don't like? Does it apply to the progressives who you despise?

Technically the Second Amendment is about the right to carry a gun. Self defense is an automatic right for all humans everywhere.

If black people don't want people to defend themselves against them, all they need to do is not attack anyone.


jespah wrote:
Oh, you sweet summer child. Here's what the Oxford Learner's Dictionary actually says about the matter.
Quote:
​the illegal killing of somebody, usually by hanging, by a crowd of people and without a trial
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/lynching#:~:text=lynching-,noun,Topics People in societyc2

But hey, you do you.

I find that definition a bit restrictive. Lynchings can result in murder, but they don't always do so.


jespah wrote:
I offered a bunch upstream. This appears to be a failure of imagination on your part. I'm sorry things are so - no pun intended - black and white for you.

I like the running away option if it is possible in a given situation. The other choices that you listed will get a white person lynched.


jespah wrote:
And how about the actual incident that this thread is about (which isn't Amy Cooper at all)? Does the woman who was in her own neighborhood and threatened for simply existing, does the Second Amendment apply to her? What are her remedies? I bet you can think of several remedies which threatened Black people can exercise. Probably several without your favorite tool. Let's hear 'em.

I'd suggest that she call the police. Only white people are being denied that option.
0 Replies
 
 

 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.06 seconds on 12/23/2024 at 10:08:46