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Covid-19: the myth of a worthy cause.

 
 
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2020 08:58 am
You get thousands of people in close proximity yelling slogans, and cheering. and shouting together for hours.

Does this present a risk in this time of pandemic?

To many people the answer is 'yes' for a baseball game and 'no' for a political protest. It is as if somehow the virus can tell the difference and will respect what it sees is a worthy cause.

The belief that somehow a protest is different than a baseball game doesn't make any sense. If people believe that these protests are worth the risk, than so be it

But this bending over backwards to show that somehow the virus is ignoring protesters is not logical.
 
justaguy2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2020 10:40 am
@maxdancona,
In other words: people should stay at home or let the virus run rampant, killing tens of thousands of people? And/or there is no such thing as covid19, and it's one big far left hoax?

Not to mention that a biological entity doesn't care about societal or political issues, but anyway...

izzythepush is right about you; you pretend to be center, but really your political leaning is just as right as trump and his supporters. Would you like my tinfoil hat while you're at it? Rolling Eyes
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2020 01:12 pm
@justaguy2,
I don't understand what point you are trying to make.

Are you saying that covid-19 is a hoax? That's not what I am saying.

My point is that as far as the virus is concerned, there is no difference between a political protest and a baseball game

Do you disagree?
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2020 01:24 pm
@maxdancona,
I certainly understand the lack of difference so far as risk of infection is concerned.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2020 01:57 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I don't understand what point you are trying to make.


The obvious has always eluded you Max.

Someone being motivated to do something because of a grave injustice is not the same as going to a sporting event.

The people knew the risks but thought the situation warranted direct action.

You are belittling BLM and those associated with it, but you don’t have the guts to do so directly so you try attacking it from a different angle. And it’s oh so obvious what you’re doing.

I thought you’d be busy sucking up to your new found Holocaust denying buddies.

What’s wrong? Did they make you look right wing and clueless?

Don’t worry, it’s hardly a great secret.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2020 02:37 pm
@izzythepush,
Hi Izzy.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2020 02:40 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:

I certainly understand the lack of difference so far as risk of infection is concerned.


The point isn't that they shouldn't be protesting. The point is that people shouldn't pretend that doing the "right thing" doesn't offer any magical protection from the virus.

Let's be honest about the risks. If the cause makes the risks worthwhile, thats ok.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2020 02:40 pm
@maxdancona,
You’re becoming as predictable as your sock puppet, similar level of vocabulary too.
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  2  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2020 04:26 pm
The vast majority of recent protesters in the BLM and the George Floyd murder protests were wearing face masks. They were not slapping each other on the back in some almost insane display of happiness. Not known to be pulling down the mask to scarf down a hotdog or some other stadium artery clogger.

A baseball game involves over the top shouting, food and beverage intake and then taking the fresh from the face hand (possibly infected) and slapperooing their pals, shaking their naked hand with an equally naked handed friend as their team hits a ball or gets a run.


Notice the difference?
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2020 06:22 pm
@Sturgis,
The protesters were in close proximity while yelling and chanting. You are right about the hot dogs.

To ignore the risk inherent in these protests is delusion.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  0  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2020 06:27 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

You get thousands of people in close proximity yelling slogans, and cheering. and shouting together for hours.

Does this present a risk in this time of pandemic?

To many people the answer is 'yes' for a baseball game and 'no' for a political protest. It is as if somehow the virus can tell the difference and will respect what it sees is a worthy cause.

The belief that somehow a protest is different than a baseball game doesn't make any sense. If people believe that these protests are worth the risk, than so be it

But this bending over backwards to show that somehow the virus is ignoring protesters is not logical.


Is there a specific example you are referencing? I have not seen or heard anything describing what you are talking about.

Most of what I have seen is that protesters were taking a risk by not practicing safe social distancing and not wearing masks. I have not seen anything about how they were at less risk than anywhere else.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2020 09:51 pm
@maxdancona,
Do you have any cites for your claim of a claim of "magical protection from the virus" in regard to doing the "right thing"?
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  0  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2020 10:57 pm
You are just exactly correct, and not only that, it's obvious. This is one of the things we can agree on.
0 Replies
 
shug23
 
  0  
Reply Mon 29 Jun, 2020 07:22 am
Well, I don't think Covid-19 is a myth but I do believe that there is a lack of information being presented in the daily news . The mortality rate for people under age 50 is almost non-existent; half the deaths are from people in nursing homes. I believe the average age of death is somewhere around age 78 or 79. For people under age 18, I probably have more fingers than there have been deaths. So why keep schools closed ? Why keep the millennials out of work ?..CDC even just announced that the risk group now is age 70 plus.....Let's take care of our elderly with precautions, but let's get back to work, school, church, ball games, etc......Use your brain if you are at risk.........On the political side, it's funny how protesters in Michigan wanting to open the state were derided by the same group of people who think BLM protesters are simply principalled
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  4  
Reply Mon 29 Jun, 2020 08:56 am
maxdancona wrote:
The point is that people shouldn't pretend that doing the "right thing" doesn't offer any magical protection from the virus.

I'm glad other people have pointed this out. The protests aren't examples of "doing the right thing". They are a reaction to something so deeply disturbing that people are actually motivated to do the wrong thing because doing nothing is not an option.

shug23 wrote:
The mortality rate for people under age 50 is almost non-existent; half the deaths are from people in nursing homes.


That's not really taking the pandemic seriously, though. Younger people can and do get the infection and even when it's not fatal, spending time in a hospital is expensive and dangerous, as secondary infections can develop. There are also reports of long-lasting damage in some people who have recovered from the disease. It's really best not to get it in the first place.

Quote:
On the political side, it's funny how protesters in Michigan wanting to open the state were derided by the same group of people who think BLM protesters are simply principalled


Isn't it just as funny that the armed wing-nuts believe that they were the "principled" ones and now deride the BLM protestors?
0 Replies
 
shug23
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Jun, 2020 09:50 am
"That's not really taking the pandemic seriously, though."

Sorry, I do take it seriously; I have dug down into the real data an not just the 30 seconds they spend telling about the number of new cases every day. If you are 80 years old, hunker down. If you are 15-30, have fun at the beach
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Jun, 2020 11:00 am
@shug23,
Quote:

Sorry, I do take it seriously; I have dug down into the real data an not just the 30 seconds they spend telling about the number of new cases every day.

Is that what you think the extent of my concern is — noting the number of new cases every day? By "taking it seriously" I mean doing all we can to stop the spread of the virus, not just allowing it to infect one segment of the population and hoping the most vulnerable people manage to avoid it. People aged 15-30 aren't immune and are in danger themselves as well as being potential carriers.

What if the next pandemic is a strain of flu or coronavirus that seriously affects young people? (The 1918 flu, for example.) Would you be as cavalier about older people just being allowed to function as usual?

The idea that the world can suffer a pandemic for which there is yet no vaccine or cure and that somehow we (minus the bed-ridden) can all just go back to work, pick up where we left off, and America will be great again is just what I mean about not taking the pandemic seriously. It's going to have long-lasting effects on our economy which will be felt for years.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Jun, 2020 11:17 am
@shug23,
shug23 wrote:

"That's not really taking the pandemic seriously, though."

Sorry, I do take it seriously; I have dug down into the real data an not just the 30 seconds they spend telling about the number of new cases every day. If you are 80 years old, hunker down. If you are 15-30, have fun at the beach


That is not what the data is saying. You are quite wrong.

1. People under 80 are dying. A lot more people of all ages are being hospitalized (i.e. in intensive care on a ventilator). Even though you don't die.... you don't want to be there.

2. The biggest risk is that hospitals fill up. That is what happened in several places... If there are more seriously sick people than hospital beds, it is a bad thing no matter how old you are.

3. Even if you were correct that young people are invincible (which clearly they are not) we still don't want millennial idiots spreading a deadly virus like wildfire. This is just idiotic.

4. I agree with you that the messaging from our government has been horrible.

5. I think that loosening.the restrictions some when the risks to hospitals goes down is reasonable. I think that anyone who completely ignores the need to socially distance in the face of a global pandemic is acting an an idiotic manner.
0 Replies
 
shug23
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Jun, 2020 11:40 am
Please present data instead of opinions

Here is my state....ICU Beds Available: 234 of 1,042 (22%) Medical Surgery Beds Available: 1,493 of 6,382 (23%) Operating Room Beds Available: 407 of 619 (66%) Pediatric Beds Available: 276 of 490 (56%) PICU Beds Available: 21 of 84 (25%) Ventilators Available: 830 of 1,021 (81%) Negative Flow rooms Available: 476 of 969 (49%)

age grouping, cases count deaths
0-4 217 0
5-17 706 0
18-35 4,201 6
36-49 2,800 9
50-64 2,280 60
65+ 2,139 302

average of death is 75


maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Jun, 2020 04:29 pm
@shug23,
That data is without context, so it is a little difficult to make good conclusions.

It is clear that most of the people who test positive for the virus are 18-35. You are correct that this data suggests that people in this age group are less likely to die.

It is reasonable to infer that this age group is responsible for most of the spread of the virus.

There is no data here on hospitalizations or on the measures being taken in your state to enforce social distancing.
0 Replies
 
 

 
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