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6/17/2020 The day that Black Lives Matter & the media lynched an innocent man

 
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Thu 18 Jun, 2020 10:45 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

Sure it is. They are his peers.


Then every black man accused of a crime should have a jury of all black men in the same age range.

Seems fitting I believe.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Thu 18 Jun, 2020 11:20 am
Sigh...

Oralloy is making stuff up that doesn't exist.

We already have a working justice system that provides a fair trial. This was settled well over 100 years ago.

I can't believe that anyone with a high school education wouldn't understand what the phrase "jury of their peers" means in the context of the American legal system.

This is just silly.
oralloy
 
  3  
Thu 18 Jun, 2020 12:52 pm
@maxdancona,
Max, you should know by now that I can see through your pathetic bluffing.

You cannot provide examples of anything untrue in my posts, and you won't.

The phrase "jury of their peers" doesn't mean anything in the American legal system, as it does not provide defendants with juries of their peers.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  4  
Thu 18 Jun, 2020 12:56 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
There was no need to pursue him,

He was resisting and fleeing arrest.


hightor wrote:
no need to kill him.

He fired a taser at a police officer.


hightor wrote:
And just what evidence to you have that BLM is a "Marxist" organization?

I personally know of no such evidence. But it is a reasonable suspicion. Many leftist advocacy groups are actually all about Marxism and not about what they pretend to advocate for. The feminist movement is a good example of this.

Whether BLM is or isn't though, there is no denying that they are all about preventing police officers from justifiably defending themselves when black people murder them.
oralloy
 
  4  
Thu 18 Jun, 2020 12:57 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Don't count on that last part, Max!

Conservatives can understand progressive falsehoods. We just understand that the falsehoods are untrue.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  4  
Thu 18 Jun, 2020 12:58 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
The mentality that non-compliance grants the police a right to kill someone has got to end.

The guy fired a taser at a police officer.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  3  
Thu 18 Jun, 2020 01:00 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
Then every black man accused of a crime should have a jury of all black men in the same age range.
Seems fitting I believe.

If we were to provide them with a jury of their peers, yes.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  0  
Thu 18 Jun, 2020 01:21 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
He fired a taser at a police officer.

Yeah, after being detained for 40 minutes for a non-violent offense and threatened with being tased. Seeing the video clips it looks like bad police-work led to an unnecessary escalation of tension leading to a physical altercation. That cop didn't look scared, he looked mad. Why not just take the guy's car keys and tell him to sleep it off — "I'll be back to check on you in two hours and give you your keys back." , or "Lock up your car and I'll walk you over to your sister's place and you can sober up." (She lived in the neighborhood.) As I said, they knew exactly who he was and could have apprehended him. Shooting a fleeing suspect in the back for being intoxicated and sleeping in a car is a little extreme, even if the frightened man did unsuccessfully try to use your non-lethal weapon against you.
oralloy
 
  4  
Thu 18 Jun, 2020 01:53 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
Why not just take the guy's car keys and tell him to sleep it off — "I'll be back to check on you in two hours and give you your keys back." , or "Lock up your car and I'll walk you over to your sister's place and you can sober up." (She lived in the neighborhood.)

Because they treat drunk driving more seriously than you apparently do.


hightor wrote:
As I said, they knew exactly who he was and could have apprehended him. Shooting a fleeing suspect in the back for being intoxicated and sleeping in a car is a little extreme, even if the frightened man did unsuccessfully try to use your non-lethal weapon against you.

Don't shoot at police officers if you don't want them to shoot back.
0 Replies
 
Webb
 
  4  
Thu 18 Jun, 2020 02:12 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
There was no need to pursue him


So the police should just let drunk drivers and criminals go? Or do you just want them to do that for only the black ones?

Quote:
The immediate neighborhood could have been closed off and additional police could have been summoned to help track him down.


...so put more people in danger from someone who already assaulted two police officers.

Only a far left radical would make these kinds of arguments and excuses.

Quote:
And just what evidence to you have that BLM is a "Marxist" organization? You're either lying or you're ignorant. Or both.


How Black Lives Matter Is Bringing Back Traditional Marxism

It isn’t surprising that Black Lives Matter is a communist organization—but the type of communism they subscribe to is. They are conservative communists attempting to fold the progressive movement back into traditional Marxism.

BLM has turned its back on intersectional theory, the modern conflict theory that birthed safe spaces, trigger warnings, and the Oppression Olympics. Instead, BLM is rebirthing the traditional class struggle, reframing it in terms of black and white.

The policy platform proposed by BLM in August did nothing to hide this traditionalism. Its calls for collective ownership of resources, banks, and businesses, a highly progressive income tax, a guaranteed minimum income, and government jobs are lifted straight from the pages of Karl Marx’s “Communist Manifesto.” Here are two excerpts for comparison:

“Communist Manifesto”: Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

Black Lives Matter: A right to restored land, clean air, clean water and housing and an end to the exploitative privatization of natural resources — including land and water. We seek democratic control over how resources are preserved, used and distributed and do so while honoring and respecting the rights of our Indigenous family.

Black vs. White Is the New Proletariat vs. Bourgeoisie
But more important is BLM’s use of the black versus white dichotomy. While race has a long history as a wedge issue, BLM incorporates nearly all forms of modern marginalization—“including but not limited to those who are women, queer, trans, femmes, gender nonconforming, Muslim, formerly and currently incarcerated, cash poor and working class, differently-abled, undocumented, and immigrant”—into blackness. Conversely, whiteness represents all forms of privilege (economic, social, and legal) throughout the platform.

BLM has simply substituted Marx’s class conflict between the proletariat and bourgeoisie for class conflict between blackness and whiteness. But unlike income and wealth, blackness and whiteness are not temporary states: while 56 percent of American households occupy the top 10 percent of the income bracket at some point during their lives, such transience does not occur with an immutable characteristic like race.

The black vs. white dichotomy creates a permanent enemy class, to which defection is always incomplete. And unlike the proletariat class consciousness, race consciousness already exists, making mobilization easier. This can be seen in the comments of a Milwaukee protester from August: “We do not want justice or peace anymore. We done with that ****. We want blood. We want blood. We want the same **** ya’ll want. Eye for an eye. No more peace. F–k all that. Ain’t no more peace. Ain’t no more peace. We done. We cannot cohabitate with white people, one of us have to go, black or white. All ya’ll have to go!”

Why Black Lives Matter Rejects Intersectionality
Where Marxism prioritizes the class struggle between the bourgeoisie and the proletariat (or between black and white), the modern theory of intersectionality prioritizes differences between identity politic groups. It posits that while white women face marginalization for their sex, they gain privilege from their race. Conversely, black men gain privilege from their sex while facing marginalization because of their race. Black women experience “double jeopardy,” suffering from both sex and race. This creates a hierarchy of oppression that is in constant flux as new forms of marginalization are recognized. Intersectional theory fractures the class conflict from two opposed groups into an unlimited number of conflicts within the hierarchy of oppression.

This is why the LGBTQQIAAP coalition is beginning to segregate itself by race. For example, some elements of the community argue that “white cis gay men are relative enablers, rather than victims, of oppression.” Intersectionality has created similar instability in the feminist movement. At a National Women’s Studies Association Conference in 1992, American Enterprise Institute Scholar Christina Hoff Sommers observed the effects of intersectionality on feminist solidarity:

“[P]articipants met in groups defined by their grievances and healing needs: Jewish women, Jewish lesbians, Asian-American women, African-American women, old women, disabled women, fat women, women whose sexuality is in transition. None of the groups proved stable. The fat group polarized into gay and straight factions, and the Jewish women discovered they were deeply divided. … This year’s concern extended to ‘marginalized’ allergy groups. Participants were sent advance notice not to bring perfumes, dry-cleaned clothing, hair spray or other irritants.”

Could Communism Be Making a Comeback?
While this sounds like a scene out of Portlandia, it exemplifies why BLM is shifting toward traditional Marxism. Devotees of intersectional theory are too triggered by the lack of gluten-free cupcakes to organize and fight capitalism.

BLM treats intersectional conflicts and “non-black people of color” much the same way Marx treated the reserve army of labor and petty bourgeoisie: as auxiliaries to the proletariat and bourgeoisie conflict. In their glossary, BLM defines the term “non-black people of color” as intended “to provide greater context to the distinct and unique oppression imposed on Black people, while recognizing the struggles of other people of color.” Which is to say that while intersectional conflicts exist, the Black vs. White conflict takes priority.

On one hand, the thought of trigger warnings and safe spaces falling out of vogue is uplifting. However, early 20th century Communist parties were highly effective in the political sphere. If BLM is successful in winning the progressive movement over to traditional Marxism, they may garner significant political power and send us further down the road to serfdom.

Thurston Powers is a second year MPA candidate at NYU Wagner and public policy analyst. In his academic life and work as an analyst he focuses on Austrian economics and criminal justice reform. However, having a front seat to the campus culture war, he cannot help but observe cultural Marxism as well.

https://thefederalist.com/2016/09/28/black-lives-matter-bringing-back-traditional-marxism/

Here's some more:

BLM are radical neo-Marxists

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/rita-panahi/blm-are-radical-neomarxists/news-story/8ed22f8b57042417bf23745dba70ad7c

Make no mistake – BLM is a radical neo-Marxist political movement

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/12/make-no-mistake-blm-radical-neo-marxist-political-movement/
hightor
 
  -2  
Fri 19 Jun, 2020 03:48 am
@Webb,
I don't think that the conservative Thurston Powers, writing in the Federalist, has authored anything more that a typical right-wing screed, a variation on "the Commies are coming!" First up, there's a difference between Marxism and "neo-Marxism", or the term wouldn't exist. If people in the upper levels of the BLM movement avail themselves of Marxist rhetoric that's unsurprising — many movements have done that. Marxism was an analysis and critique of the economic system of capitalism and was not specifically concerned with racism or the killing of black people by white cops. The people in the street demonstrating and protesting under the BLM banner are not "Marxists" —
Quote:
“We do not want justice or peace anymore. We done with that ****. We want blood. We want blood. We want the same **** ya’ll want. Eye for an eye. No more peace. F–k all that. Ain’t no more peace. Ain’t no more peace. We done. We cannot cohabitate with white people, one of us have to go, black or white. All ya’ll have to go!”

Those are not "Marxist" sentiments.
Karl Marx wrote:
Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living. And just as they seem to be occupied with revolutionizing themselves and things, creating something that did not exist before, precisely in such epochs of revolutionary crisis they anxiously conjure up the spirits of the past to their service, borrowing from them names, battle slogans, and costumes in order to present this new scene in world history in time-honored disguise and borrowed language.

Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Fri 19 Jun, 2020 05:26 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Quote:
He fired a taser at a police officer.

Yeah, after being detained for 40 minutes for a non-violent offense and threatened with being tased. Seeing the video clips it looks like bad police-work led to an unnecessary escalation of tension leading to a physical altercation. That cop didn't look scared, he looked mad. Why not just take the guy's car keys and tell him to sleep it off — "I'll be back to check on you in two hours and give you your keys back." , or "Lock up your car and I'll walk you over to your sister's place and you can sober up." (She lived in the neighborhood.) As I said, they knew exactly who he was and could have apprehended him. Shooting a fleeing suspect in the back for being intoxicated and sleeping in a car is a little extreme, even if the frightened man did unsuccessfully try to use your non-lethal weapon against you.


That seems so obvious. If the violator had been white and the cop black...these people would see the logic in what you wrote with no trouble.

Cops have got to learn to de-escalate. Not an easy thing to do...ego and testosterone working against in in so many of these cases.

But it has got to happen.

Actually, I am more inclined to think it will today...than ever before in my life. I think MOST people are tired of this crap...white and black.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  2  
Fri 19 Jun, 2020 04:42 pm
Atlanta police officers are calling in sick:
https://apnews.com/870f32a425b41ce391f84e1625439ebe

Atlanta police officers are given a $500 bonus in a desperate attempt to convince them to go back to work:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/19/atlanta-police-bonus-protests/

I bet gun sales are soaring.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Fri 19 Jun, 2020 05:44 pm
@oralloy,
If the call is to "Defund the Police", and the police are calling in sick.

It seems like this is working out nicely.
oralloy
 
  4  
Fri 19 Jun, 2020 05:51 pm
@maxdancona,
It won't work out very well for you if someone ever tries to harm you.

Calling the police if you need help will be a bad idea if your attacker is a minority. Not only will they be unable to help you, but if you somehow manage to help yourself, you will then have your career destroyed by deranged progressives who will not tolerate you calling the police on a minority.

Your least-bad option is to carry a gun so you can protect yourself if someone tries to harm you, and then just quickly slip away before the police show up if you ever are forced to use it.
maxdancona
 
  -3  
Fri 19 Jun, 2020 06:02 pm
@oralloy,
Oralloy, are you able to understand the issue here?

I get your point. It is correct, but it is rather simplistic. You are saying that when a bad guy wants to attack me, I will want there to be police around. I get it, but that is the most basic point.

The intelligent points revolve around these issues...

1) These communities feel that the harm being done by police is worse than the harm being done by "bad guys". When you respond to this, try to offer something more intelligent than the obvious slogan.

2) These are real, normal Americans... trying to live their lives in a community feeling that the police who are supposed to be serving and protecting them are doing more harm than good.

3) We are spending a hell of a lot of money on police. Yes, it does lower the crime rate... but so do things like job training, and social workers. Since the police are failing these communities (as judged by the members of these communities)... isn't it possible that maybe diverting this money to other areas.

4) Shouldn't the members of a community be the people who make these decisions (rather than having a police force imposed on them).

Please Oralloy stop the simplistic slogans and knee-jerk political propaganda and and least consider the idea that these are difficult issues.
FreedomEyeLove
 
  4  
Fri 19 Jun, 2020 06:31 pm
Oh look, Bobsal and Glitterbag came here with their sock accounts and vandalized this thread.

Just like before, I witnessed oralloy's comments in the multiple + votes, then came back very shortly later to see them down-voted into double digit negatives.

I guess that's OK here and the admins don't mind it happening...
maxdancona
 
  -4  
Fri 19 Jun, 2020 06:40 pm
@FreedomEyeLove,
FreedomEye

Stop being a hypocrite. The solution to the problems if the liberal "in-crowd" here is for enough members to reject it and act responsibly. This means making your points without personal insults and even agreeing with the liberals when they have a valid point.

I don't think two ideological bubble is better than one ideological bubble. Your answer to nastiness from liberals is to increase closed-minded nastiness from conservatives.

What we have is two nasty little ideological groups with zero real discussion throwing nasty insults at each other. But who am I to complain... that seems to be what people on both sides want.

FreedomEyeLove
 
  4  
Fri 19 Jun, 2020 08:32 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Your answer to nastiness from liberals is to increase closed-minded nastiness from conservatives.


How the heck am I being "nasty"???

Bobsal and Glitterbag are using sock accounts to vote people so far down that they collapse and become censored! That is explicitly against the house rules, and yet no admins address this issue or take action against them.

Funny, because there's a thread here where these shenanigans happened to the liberals for once, and they lost their ******* minds!!! https://able2know.org/topic/467321-1

An entire thread of whining and complaining that their own medicine was being served back to them for a change. Of course when the leftists cried and complained, their demands were immediately responded to here: https://able2know.org/topic/468668-1

And yet the rule breaking is allowed FULL ON to continue when it's the conservatives who are being bullied. There's no special message from Robert addressing or 'fixing' that!

I didn't say say anything "nasty" about anyone, I didn't call any names.

I pointed to a factual abuse of the house rules.

It seems like, according to you, that the "in-crowd" here should be able to cheat all they want and fight as dirty as they want! And if anyone being bullied even points out that it's happening that's "being nasty".

You want conservatives to not even be able to speak up, let alone fight back.

maxdancona
 
  -3  
Fri 19 Jun, 2020 08:42 pm
@FreedomEyeLove,
Quote:
You want conservatives to not even be able to speak up, let alone fight back.


What I want is intelligent people who may be liberal or conservative... but are able to have a respectful discussion and even admit when the other side has a valid point.

I am an eternal optimist. But, this is what I want. Right now I don't see much difference between your behavior here and that of bobsal or glitterbag.

 

 
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