@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
Do you see god as too incompetent to do his will of saving us all?
Or do you see god as a universalist god who does his will and saves us all?
We are all God's children, made in His image, so whatever we do is part and parcel of what He does; i.e. He is acting through us. The problem is that God's power includes the power to oppose Himself, so in the story of Lucifer, an angel of God falls to the temptation to compete against God for worship due to his own pride. So there's nothing in Lucifer that is not created by God, i.e. the pride that drives him to compete with God instead of serving Him can't be attributed to something beyond God. We as humans can't have the capacity to experience pride except insofar as we were created in God's image, so pride and sin are latent potentials within the creation and our essence, all of which was created by God in His image.
In the story of Noah's flood, God very clearly fails at destroying all humans to rid the world of sin, yet He ultimately forgives them/us and pledges never to destroy us against because of sin. So you could say that God is in conflict with His own sinful propensities, which He sees manifest in humanity and the creation generally.
So now you ask specifically about us all being saved, to which the Bible says,
Quote:
Romans 5:8
But God proves His love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Some people claim Paul wasn't a direct disciple of Jesus, so what he says doesn't count, but he makes an astute observation here, which is that Christ died for us 'while we were still sinners,' and that means that every sinner, in other words everyone, was forgiven by Christ when He died for them. Christ didn't live/die for the righteous but for sinners, and He also noted that even the righteous are sinners, so technically He died for everyone so that we don't have to die of our own sin.
Now then you ask if we are all saved while we are sinners, why do we have to do anything to receive that salvation. The simple answer is because we have the freedom to deny Christ and blasphemy Holy Spirit or otherwise choose a path of unrepentance. In that case, we can fight off second-birth, but we can't escape from the fact that Christ died for us (sinners) on the cross, because He did and our salvation is thus bought and paid for and waiting for us whenever we finally turn our hearts around to accept it.
You do not know your bible nor what a decent moral sense looks like.
First. On Jesus dying for you.
It takes quite an inflated ego to think a god would actually die for you, after condemning you unjustly in the first place.
You have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil you make Jesus to keep your feel good get out of hell free card.
It is a lie, first and foremost because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral. To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.
You also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.
Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
There is no way that you would teach your children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are doing just that.
Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fibre as Yahweh.
Second, on your anti-biblical view of us having a free will to decide to believe or not.
Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?
Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byHYeHN4ZUQ
Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.
The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.
If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?
Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?
Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?
I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.
Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.
What is your choice of those two options?
Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.
I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.
What do you think is the truth?
Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?
Regards
DL