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Coronavirus Diaries

 
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2020 04:00 pm
You are suggesting that "cultural factors" or ignorance are causing communities with high levels of immigrants to suffer. I am sorry. This is a community that I have worked with and that I care about. It simply just isn't true.

Quote:
I am not making this a racial thing or anything else - but the numbers speak - maybe it is simply that most in these categories are in the service industry.


What numbers are you talking about? It seems pretty clear to me that ....

1. People in White middle class communities are defying social distancing. I live in one of these communities, and it is clear that middle class people are breaking the social distancing guidelines.

2. There is no "cultural" phenomenon happening here. That is just ridiculous.

3. It's the economy. Chelsea and Brockton are two very different cities. In Chelsea there is a large of immigrants particularly from Latin American countries. Seventy percent of people in Chelsea are are Hispanic and many of them are first generation immigrants. On the other hand Brockton is mostly African-American and working class White. There aren't as many immigrants.

What is the same? Both of these cities are economically depressed.

Your comments are upsetting because you are insulting communities that had economic challenges before the pandemic started. You are suggesting that high covid rates are caused by "culture" and being "uninformed". There is no evidence of this.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2020 04:05 pm
And let me state this very clearly.

This epidemic is hitting immigrant communities much harder than you could ever imagine. This is especially true of families and communities that include people who are undocumented. They aren't ignorant. They aren't "culturally" deficient. They are human beings who are in a much worse situation than you are.

Don't judge them if you don't understand what they are going through.
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2020 04:33 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
...monthly income of $50,000...


Why yes, that would be a rather large monthly income.

Go back read Linkat's post. it did not say monthly. I (and most) would figure it to mean an annual income. The income bracketing information should have clued you in.

Of course, truth be told, the average first generation immigrants, aren't often earning that amount in a year. They often work off the books, they often take the low wage jobs which the born on he usa person of European only, heritage refuses. The home health aides, the dishwashers, the floor cleaners in public venues, the hotel and motel housekeepers, the busboys, the waitresses and waiters in the affordable restaurants and cafes, the nurses aides in hospitals and nursing homes, the grocery store stockers, etc. e tc.

With the lower end income, they end up in smaller homes, many times with more than one family and more than one generation. This means far less distancing. If there are 8 persons in a 2 or even 3 bedroom home, it's not a great health environment.

Others who fall into the deathtrap (for lack of better or friendlier description), second generation immigrants. Higher education (college) was in no way feasible. Maybe a local community college, but even that runs up in cost with tuition, books, other supplies (a good computer is necessary). Scholarships are shown to be harder to find and receive for the already disadvantaged.

Why would it be more difficult? Among other things, the students attend schools with less e sources. Less guidance towards furthering education. Usually, less mentoring is done in these schools as well.

So, after college, the students who have attended private sector schools usually have better resources for job seeoing.

And it's not only the immigrants who go through this. All minorities suffer and even many of the pasty white folks who grew up on the wrong side of the tracks.

Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2020 04:38 pm
@maxdancona,
I grew up in this community and my mom still lives there so I am intimately associated with it.

I never said anything about being ignorant... I did speak of cultural because things can vary because of your culture.

The culture from Boston is far different than say in the south. It is not an insult it just is a fact.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2020 04:44 pm
@maxdancona,
No brockton has many Hispanics ... Brazil and Portuguese are huge and Cape Verdians . I lived in Brockton and have family there some of which are part of these groups. My daughter has gone to a Brazilian church in Brockton with friends.

I have good friends that work in their public school system. My founding is involved with the history of the city . I kind of know about it.
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2020 04:47 pm
@maxdancona,
Why would a culture be deficient? It just is.

If your culture is to regularly get together in large groups say a big Sunday dinner every week it can impact a pandemic.. it does not mean you are deficient in any way that is your culture.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2020 04:50 pm
@Sturgis,
Ok good point on the closer quarters that and the service industry would make sense.

Similar to nursing homes ... close quarters as well as well being more susceptible
Sturgis
 
  2  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2020 05:00 pm
@Linkat,
There is also more physical contact with the patients than there would be for a mortgage advisor and client or many other indistries. There was also indication in news reports (both print and television) that the line workers in the meat packing plants are nearly shoulder to shoulder. There too these are the lower income people and as is the case with most of the lower income people, they do the jobs which make our living a little more manageable.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2020 05:27 pm
@Sturgis,
Are you agreeing with Linkat that immigrant communities are more susceptible to covid-19 because of "cultural reasons" and because they are "uninformed"?

I strongly disagree with this (and I find it offensive). If you are going to suggest that minority communities are getting sick because of their "culture" or their lack of being "informed", you should have numbers to back this claim up. This argument plays on typical racial stereotypes.

The numbers suggest to me that people who are economically disadvantaged have a much more difficult time social distancing regardless of race or culture.

Are you arguing with me because it is me? Or do you really believe the argument that it is about "culture"?
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2020 05:34 pm
@Linkat,
Just to get the facts straight.

1. Brockton is 7% Hispanic. Chelsea is 69% Hispanic. This is quite a big difference.

2. You have provided zero evidence that people in Chelsea or Brockton are having "family dinners" any more than people in White middle class neighborhoods. Do you have any? I don't see it. I do see people in Chelsea working three jobs to feed their families and being unable to work from home.
Sturgis
 
  2  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2020 05:38 pm
@maxdancona,
I was saying immigrant communities are more susceptible, due to the nature of the work they do and often close-quarters living conditions.

At no point did I say it was about culture or lacking information or access to such.


Quote:
...because it's me?


I said in my post, the same as I would have to any other person.

You oddly skipped over my comment on the $50,000 which you thought was monthly, even though neither the article nor Linkat had said that.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2020 05:40 pm
If you care about this issue... you should be advocating for public support and stimulus money for immigrants regardless of their immigration status.

That is the best way to help support public distancing in immigrant communities. And truly, our war against "illegal" immigrants pushes people into the shadows... which runs directly against our public health goals as a nation. Creating a class of people who must keep working to survive and don't have access to health care is a disaster.

It doesn't do any good to judge them. The productive thing to do is help them.

Sturgis
 
  3  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2020 05:44 pm
@maxdancona,
How do you know what people do when not on this board? Unless you've been provided with information from any of us, you do not know.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  3  
Reply Fri 15 May, 2020 10:53 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Just to get the facts straight.

1. Brockton is 7% Hispanic. Chelsea is 69% Hispanic. This is quite a big difference.

2. You have provided zero evidence that people in Chelsea or Brockton are having "family dinners" any more than people in White middle class neighborhoods. Do you have any? I don't see it. I do see people in Chelsea working three jobs to feed their families and being unable to work from home.



Brockton is 12% hispanic - chelsea is 65% which is from 2017 - looks like your data is about outdated. I am also basing this on my personal experience as we know in both communities there are undocumented immigrants which are likely not included in this.

I am going by my personal experience with all the Brazilian churches, with those that I went to school with - so yes groups probably have shifted - but is not even the point - I am talking of immigrants in general - not which race they come from - I never brought race into this.

I am not saying that the increase in covid with immigrants has to do with a cultural - I am asking if this is cultural - for example to meet in large groups - you are reading into this and turning this into a negative I am trying to understand as I would rather seek a way to help a community. You have yet to answer any questions as to why a certain immigrant(s) would not wear protective gear? Not all immigrants are working three jobs to get by (and you know what some non-immigrants are as well).

No I have not had one family dinner with people that do not live within my home since the pandemic.

We have witnessed regularly neighbors of my mom (where I visit on the sidewalk while she is in her yard) - having large gatherings. She voices that they have been doing this regularly. They are first generation legal immigrants with a plumbing business. I was questioning if this was perhaps something cultural for them.

If you would like proof I can ask my mom to take a picture of all the cars parked there. I saw this with my own eyes when I went over on mothers day.

You know in my dad's Irish cultural at funerals they have what many other culturals would consider a party - having some drinks and food and laughing and looking like they are having a good time - my italian side does the opposite they cry and are very sad. Both are these are cultural -I had friends think it was horrible how the Irish side acted. I didn't take offense - it is just how they handle their grieving process.

I am going to let go at this point because you choose to be offended. I am trying to understand if there could be anything more - others have contributed and discussed that many live in close quarters making it difficult to distance themselves from others. I can certainly understand this as both my parents growing up did this - they lived similar both had between 6 and 7 siblings and had lived in an apartment with grandparents downstairs - so yeah they grew up this way.

I lived in this community, went to public school in this community, had and still have friends in this community, my family is still part of this community so I cannot understand your anger.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  3  
Reply Fri 15 May, 2020 10:55 am
@Sturgis,
Sturgis wrote:

I was saying immigrant communities are more susceptible, due to the nature of the work they do and often close-quarters living conditions.

At no point did I say it was about culture or lacking information or access to such.


Quote:
...because it's me?


I said in my post, the same as I would have to any other person.

You oddly skipped over my comment on the $50,000 which you thought was monthly, even though neither the article nor Linkat had said that.



Max oddly skips over anything that would counter whatever point he is trying to make.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 May, 2020 07:37 pm
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/were-angry-and-were-hurting-why-communities-of-color-suffer-more-from-covid-19

Quote:
Yamiche Alcindor:

Experts point to longstanding social and racial inequities.

Bates Chamberlain's loved ones who ended up hospitalized suffer from the diseases that run in her family, diabetes or high blood pressure. African-Americans as a whole suffer disproportionately from those same chronic illnesses, which make COVID-19 more deadly.

Blacks and Hispanics are also less likely to have health insurance. And people of color in general are more likely to live in dense cities than whites. They also have less access to high-quality food.

At the same time, working from home isn't an option for many.




Quote:
Back in Boston, Dr. Marshall says the messaging for the underserved, especially in a time of crisis, often falls short.

Andrew Marshall:

We forget that there are pockets in the city that don't have as much means.

We also forget that, when we tell somebody to go home and self-isolate, we take for granted that you can do that, that you have a room in your house where other people don't live where you can self-isolate.


more at link

listen or read

because Yamiche
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 May, 2020 03:48 pm
So upon hearing that dog grooming is one area that will open up on May 25th and my shitz tzu is a mess, I tried to book an appointment online - kept failing - finally got on!

He will finally be able to see again come May 27th!
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 May, 2020 04:31 pm
@ehBeth,
Well, this AM's NYT had a nat article about the problem that your "boardwalk Fox families" are causing in Toronto.

Keep an eye out for the coy-wolves, the whole new subspecies that are roughly between the size of coyotes and Timber Wolves .
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 May, 2020 08:18 am
Today two of the teachers showed up to drop off a little bag of candy.

The teachers and staff divided and conquered and went to every student's house to give them a little surprise.

Even though with the seniors gone my daughter is now part of the oldest class in the school you could tell by her smile how surprised and happy it made her.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Thu 21 May, 2020 03:59 pm
Spoke with my brother - he told me that he is working with the most ill patients - he said some get better and some do not.

On the positive side he did say there are less patients in number.
0 Replies
 
 

 
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