I am pretty sure this thread is at least in part addressed to me... and I will answer it.
1. Science is a Meritocracy. The good ideas win. The bad ideas are rejected. There are wrong answers in science. When you are making new drugs, or building planes are designing nuclear power plants you had better get it right. We can't let any idiot do these things.
2. Scientists are Educated Real scientists spend years of University Study, learning math, listening to lectures, doing lab work, writing papers. This hard work is important[/b], scientists are not just learning knowledge, they are developing skills. You can't advance real science in any meaningful way without this.
3. Crank Ideas hurt the public. Are you arguing that scientists shouldn't defend against crank ideas? That doesn't seem reasonable. Crank science sometimes have deadly effects, as in when people don't vaccinate their children.
4. Science is done in an ivory tower, there is no other way to do it. The alternative is that anyone can just come up with their own crazy ideas and call it science. If you read the idiotic posts here about 4th dimensional quantum foam.... scientists don't have time to answer this nonsense, they are busy doing real science.
I think the hostility you are feeling is justified; not toward you, but toward your rather ridiculous ideas about science. Yes you are wrong.
What should a real scientists do when someone keep arguing pseudo-scientific nonsense? A real scientist can try to explain how you are wrong.... I have never seen any of you change your mind (if you can point to an example where you have accepted an actual scientific explanation ... I would love to see it).
There are right answers in science. There are wrong answers in science. There is real science. There is fake science. Real science is done by real scientists. I feel that is very important to make this distinction.
1. If you don't spend the years it takes to master differential equations you can't be a real Physicists or Chemist or Geologist or master most types of hard science. That is just a fact that we can not change. Quantum Physics starts with Schrodinger's equation. If you can't understand this... then anything you claim to understand about Quantum Physics is nonsense.
The answer is to make an advanced education accessible to a broader group of people. You can't dumb down science just to get more people involved.
Anti-vaxers think that science/medicine that pushes vaccination without considering harmful side-effects is 'crank science.' Conflicting ideas shouldn't eclipse each other, so that people can think for themselves about them and what others have to say against them.
Quote:Anti-vaxers think that science/medicine that pushes vaccination without considering harmful side-effects is 'crank science.' Conflicting ideas shouldn't eclipse each other, so that people can think for themselves about them and what others have to say against them.
In the vaccination "debate" one side is right, and the other side is wrong. If we choose one policy we will save kids from preventable disease. If we choose the other policy more kids will die from preventable deaths.
People "thinking for themselves" rather than listening to science has real consequences... science can measure the number of kids lives that are lost.
I have no problem with "public discourse", if at the end the public accepts the correct answer. But this "public discourse" is for the sake of educating the public. It is not for the sake of science.
Vaccinate your kids.
If you studied Physics in a University... probably in your third year you would take your first Quantum Physics class. Here you would study actual Quantum physics based on the mathematics you have been mastering. You would realize the papers written by Einstein and Bohr, and DeBroglie and Schrodinger that started Quantum Physics were based on mathematics, and the ideas were all mathematical. This is why every serious Physics Student masters two years of advanced mathematics before diving into Quantum Physics.
There are three problems with your premise that "books in a library" are a replacement for University study.
1) You are reading books that are based on mathematics... they are giving English descriptions of Mathematical work. They are summaries at best and open to misinterpretation. All of the real work from Einstein's paper on the Photoelectric effect onward were mathematical.
2) You start with misconceptions... and then you can cherry pick the parts of books that reinforce your misconceptions. In University you need to prove our ideas mathematically or they fail, and you are challenged by peers and professors to push on your existing preconceptions.
Your idea that you can master science by having a summary description of the mathematics, without learning the mathematics yourself, is wrong-headed.
There is no way for me to prove you wrong that you will accept... because I speak to you in mathematics. Which is why it is impossible for either Farmerman or me to teach you anything.
Bullshit! It doesn't matter if people understand the science or not, as long as they vaccinate their kids. We are not going to teach every American parent about epidemiology. We are going to tell them whatever we need to tell them to get them to do the right thing for their kids.
You don't understand how semiconductors work or logic gates, and yet you are using the internet. You don't understand how airplanes work, or fuel injection. Modern society depends on experts.
I forget who it was that discovered the emissions/absorption spectra were quantized, but you can understand that without complex math
The point is that if anti-vaxers want to study reasons vaccines might be bad in some ways, they should; and people like you shouldn't discourage them from doing so in the name of 'science.'
People should learn science and think critically and not just blindly accept things because self-proclaimed scientists tell them to.
You are an authoritarian and science is fundamentally anti-authoritarian by virtue of its emergence as critical questioning of established church doctrines in the middle ages.
Science is absolutely authoritarian. There are right answers. There are wrong answers.
When Science faced the church, it didn't come to some "let's just agree that we are both right" thing. No! We all say. Science was right. The Church was wrong. The Earth moves. There are moons around Jupiter. No scientist now accepts questioning, from the church or from anyone else on the fact that the Earth orbits the sun.
You have some strange view that everyone can be right in science. That isn't how it works.
If some cranks on the internet say that vaccines cause autism (in spite of the fact scientists have studied this and determined that they don't)... science has no obligation to humor them. Cranks are cranks.
If people come up with some real evidence that hasn't been seen before, then scientists will look at it (and they should). Opening up a new investigation based on compelling new evidence is part of science. But extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Right and wrong answer do not authoritarianism make. Authoritarianism is when right and wrong answers are decreed without explaining the reason they are right/wrong and imploring the reader to assess right/wrong for themselves using their own innate capacity for logical reasoning.
E.g. if you told me that 8x8=64 and that's just a fact I have to accept, that would be authoritarian. If, however, I questioned you and you told me to add 8+8+8+8+8+8+8+8=64, then I would understand multiplication and see why 8x8=64 for myself.
This is exactly right. You are proving my point.
You can check that 8 x 8 = 64 because in this case you have a good enough knowledge of the mathematics involved to check for yourself. Presumably you learned about addition and multiplication in a mathematics class that likely involved lectures and problem sets.
This is a perfect example of where you have a level of expertise. There is a right answer and wrong answers. And you can check if for yourself and confirm that this is the right answer.
Now if someone who didn't understand what addition was and didn't want to take the time to learn it told you that 8 x 8 = 61, how would you explain to them that they were wrong? You can do the counting all you want, if they don't accept how you know addition works, that isn't going to convince them.
Are you an authoritarian in the case of 8 x 8 = 64, or are you willing to consider different answers.
Nothing gives a science teacher a better sense of having had a great career, is to see his or her many students whove pursued the same craft , really succeed.
Having someone dedicate their theses to you is like a real blessing .
To consider them colleagues an. hopefully, friends, is like seeing your own kids grow up and leave the nest as successful adults.