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Arsenokoitai - A mistranslation?

 
 
chai2
 
Sat 19 Oct, 2019 09:50 pm
I found the following piece facinating.

The word arsennokoitai shows up in 2 different verses in the bible, but it was not translated to mean homosexual until 1946.

https://www.forgeonline.org/blog/2019/3/8/what-about-romans-124-27?fbclid=IwAR2RasOIsbJTrmFtV3g1F-Q2k5DueW2mV_jrLqEBv9zddN895mzMzvoeZwQ
 
glitterbag
 
  1  
Sat 19 Oct, 2019 10:09 pm
@chai2,
Have you ever read the book "Misquoting Jesus"?
chai2
 
  1  
Sat 19 Oct, 2019 10:20 pm
@glitterbag,
I don't believe Jesus existed, so everything is a misquote.
glitterbag
 
  1  
Sat 19 Oct, 2019 10:21 pm
@chai2,
I mean in the Bible!!!!
chai2
 
  1  
Sun 20 Oct, 2019 09:31 am
@glitterbag,
Yeah. I basically meant the same thing.

I don't think Jesus existed in the first place. So it's a free for all as far as taking what he "said" and changing it around to suit whatever agenda is being pushed.

Think how much more likely it is to misquote stuff from the torah, which is much older.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Sun 20 Oct, 2019 10:57 am
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

I found the following piece facinating.

The word arsennokoitai shows up in 2 different verses in the bible, but it was not translated to mean homosexual until 1946.

https://www.forgeonline.org/blog/2019/3/8/what-about-romans-124-27?fbclid=IwAR2RasOIsbJTrmFtV3g1F-Q2k5DueW2mV_jrLqEBv9zddN895mzMzvoeZwQ

In which translation?
chai2
 
  2  
Sun 20 Oct, 2019 11:02 am
@InfraBlue,
Please be more specific.

I'm not going to examine the entire article to pick out your meaning.
It's on you to be clear, not on me to guess.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Sun 20 Oct, 2019 11:12 am
@chai2,
There are various translations of the Bible. You make reference to a 1946 translation. Which one is it?
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Sun 20 Oct, 2019 11:25 am
Here are the various renderings of 1 Corinthians 6:9 found on Biblhub

New International Version
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men

New Living Translation
Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality,

English Standard Version
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,

Berean Study Bible
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts,

Berean Literal Bible
Or do you not know that the unrighteous ones will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

New American Standard Bible
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

New King James Version
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

King James Bible
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Christian Standard Bible
Don't you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God's kingdom? Do not be deceived: No sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, or males who have sex with males,

Contemporary English Version
Don't you know that evil people won't have a share in the blessings of God's kingdom? Don't fool yourselves! No one who is immoral or worships idols or is unfaithful in marriage or is a pervert or behaves like a homosexual

Good News Translation
Surely you know that the wicked will not possess God's Kingdom. Do not fool yourselves; people who are immoral or who worship idols or are adulterers or homosexual perverts

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Don't you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God's kingdom? Do not be deceived: No sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, or anyone practicing homosexuality,

International Standard Version
You know that wicked people will not inherit the kingdom of God, don't you? Stop deceiving yourselves! Sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals,

NET Bible
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, passive homosexual partners, practicing homosexuals,

New Heart English Bible
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor men who have sexual relations with men,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Or do you not know that evil men do not inherit The Kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; no fornicators, neither worshipers of idols, neither adulterers, neither sexual molesters, neither males lying down with males,

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Don't you know that wicked people won't inherit the kingdom of God? Stop deceiving yourselves! People who continue to commit sexual sins, who worship false gods, those who commit adultery, homosexuals,

New American Standard 1977
Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

Jubilee Bible 2000
Know ye not that the unjust shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor effeminate nor homosexuals

King James 2000 Bible
Know you not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

American King James Version
Know you not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

American Standard Version
Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,

Douay-Rheims Bible
Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers,

Darby Bible Translation
Do ye not know that unrighteous [persons] shall not inherit [the] kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who make women of themselves, nor who abuse themselves with men,

English Revised Version
Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,

Webster's Bible Translation
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Weymouth New Testament
Do you not know that unrighteous men will not inherit God's Kingdom? Cherish no delusion here. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor any who are guilty of unnatural crime,

World English Bible
Or don't you know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexuals,

Young's Literal Translation
have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites,

According to Wikipedia, "the Greek word arsenokoitai (ἀρσενοκοῖται) in verse 9 has been debated for some time, and has been variously rendered as "abusers of themselves with mankind" (KJV), "sodomites" (YLT), or "men who have sex with men" (NIV). Greek ἄῤῥην / ἄρσην [arrhēn / arsēn] means "male", and κοίτην [koitēn] "bed", with a sexual connotation. Paul's use of the word in 1 Corinthians is the earliest example of the term; its only other usage is in a similar list of wrongdoers given (possibly by the same author) in 1 Timothy 1:8–11: In the letter to the Corinthians, within the list of people who will not inherit the kingdom of God, Paul uses two Greek words: malakoi and arsenokoitai. Malakoi is a common Greek word meaning, of things subject to touch, "soft" (used in Matthew 11:8 and Luke 7:25 to describe a garment); of things not subject to touch, "gentle"; and, of persons or modes of life, a number of meanings that include "pathic". Nowhere else in scripture is malakoi used to describe a person."
chai2
 
  2  
Sun 20 Oct, 2019 11:37 am
@InfraBlue,
It's seems you're answering your own question InfraBlue.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Sun 20 Oct, 2019 11:38 am
@chai2,
Your article refers to the Revised Standard Version translation of the Bible which itself is a revision of the American Standard Version. It's reading level is Middle School as opposed to the High School level of the ASV. In the American Standard Version the occurence of arsenokoitai is translated as, "abusers of themselves with men".
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Sun 20 Oct, 2019 11:39 am
@chai2,
Thank you much, ma'am.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Sun 20 Oct, 2019 01:37 pm
@chai2,
I think this is wishful thinking. Why would a Bronze Age theocracy have the same views as a 21st century liberal democracy?

It is a mistake to force our cultural values onto other cultures. We do this all the time, not just to Bronze Age Jewish culture, but also to Native American cultures, and African cultures and Asian cultures. Rather than accept that these cultures were different, we try to either use certain out of context practices to justify our modern beliefs, or to condemn them and show our superiority.

In truth, if we transported a 21st century liberal American into any culture in history they would be challenged with practices that would violate their own sense of right and wrong.

Leviticus 18 seems to make it pretty damn clear. Lying with a man the way you would with a woman is prohibited.

Either accept what the Bible is saying or reject it. But don't lie about what it says.

The Bible also very clearly supports stoning young girls for having sex, taking slaves and raping them and killing civilians in war. These are all things that we now consider to be immoral.



InfraBlue
 
  1  
Sun 20 Oct, 2019 01:47 pm
@maxdancona,
This guy's faith is hung up on a 1946 translation of a single word in the New Testament. Jeez.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Sun 20 Oct, 2019 01:51 pm
@InfraBlue,
It is not a single word. Hell, it is not even the same language. The God in the Bible has been consistently against homosexuality across centuries and even languages.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Sun 20 Oct, 2019 01:57 pm
@InfraBlue,
Eusibius (300 CE) considered homosexuality a sin on the same level as adultury.

A quick google search reveals John Chrysostom (329 CE) writing "All of these affections then were vile, but chiefly the mad lust after males; for the soul is more the sufferer in sins, and more dishonored than the body in diseases. ... [The men] have done an insult to nature itself."

Of course, The Spanish Inquisition executed men for homosexuality.

All of these happened long before 1946.
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  1  
Sun 20 Oct, 2019 02:00 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Why would a Bronze Age theocracy have...21st century liberal democracy?


A) History repeats itself. Repeatedly.

B) are you thinking that the entire planet is a liberal democracy? WHY?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Sun 20 Oct, 2019 02:02 pm
@Sturgis,
I don't think that anyone outside of a 21st century liberal democracy would every make this argument.

It is pretty clear that the Bible is against homosexuality. It is only people in a liberal democracy who feel the need to explain this away.

Liberals have a bad habit of rewriting history to suit their modern political narrative. Sure, other ideologies do the same... but in this case it it the liberals.

0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  1  
Sun 20 Oct, 2019 02:10 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Leviticus...


Oh please! The current available bibles were slopped out by various men over the years. The changes from one version to another at times don't even jibe.

And while you have that bible out, keep in mind, there is also the idea (supposedly shipped in from God), that it a man has no son, only daughters, why then it's just find and dandy for the daughters to get him drunk and have sex with him. Supposedly this will mean that he will then be a father to a couple of sons. (So sayeth the Lord God)


The bible is often nonsense, laced with and dribbling with utter rot!
chai2
 
  1  
Sun 20 Oct, 2019 02:17 pm
@Sturgis,
Sturgis wrote:



The bible is often nonsense, laced with and dribbling with utter rot!


The bible is Total nonsense.
 

 
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