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What is the "US Constitution"?

 
 
Reply Sat 12 Oct, 2019 08:47 pm
How should it be understood and practically applied in our everyday life?

How should all world affairs be impacted by this US Constitution and who should be bound by its values?

What intrinsically is the US Constitution and how do we make unions with those who do not respect the ideals of this US Constitution?

Who is legally bound by our US Constitution and what of foreign and domestic interests who want to invest in our country without first swearing an oath to uphold our common values enshrined within this document?

How will we know when an oath to the US Constitution has been broken?

 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sat 12 Oct, 2019 09:16 pm
@TheCobbler,
You are talking as if the Constitution is a religious document. It isn't.

The Constitution gives me certain rights. Other than that it doesnt impact my life at all.
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Oct, 2019 10:09 pm
@maxdancona,
The US Constitution is higher than a religious document.

Religion is not always moral.

Religion is often racist, imperialist, barbaric, anti-science and often values faith over truth...

You talk as if religion is some high standard that common human values take a side seat to.

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

The US Constitution seeks to fix what religion has fu**ed up.

The Constitution does not impact your life because you have sworn allegiance to your slave masters. You have lost part of your soul... Something religion might have tried to save if it was effective...

The ideals of "domestic tranquility" impacts your life more than you know or are aware of. While you belittle the Constitution your rights are eroded away by your masters who have alternatively sword allegiance to the almighty dollar...
0 Replies
 
longly
 
  0  
Reply Sun 13 Oct, 2019 02:57 am
I think that the most important thing to remember about the US Constitution is that it was not written in code. It means what it says.
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TheCobbler
 
  0  
Reply Sun 13 Oct, 2019 03:37 am
I would like to note that the US Constitution mirrors the human constitution. Yes, we have a constitution within our own psyche. It is healthy as long as it has not been damaged by the tactics of greedy people in power.

The US Constitution is derived from the human constitution.

That, every human being desires to be treated with dignity and equality. Only when we are defeated by corrupt governmental powers that use fear and intimidation do we surrender our human constitution for subservience. Out of fear and terror people surrender their liberty.

Free enterprise and capitalism were created to give every person a fair chance at the pursuit of happiness. But in order for capitalism to work, every corporate entity has to swear allegiance to the human constitution over their own greed which usurps decency and fair opportunity.

Just as every political entity must also swear allegiance to the human constitution.

When corporate entities masquerade as "people" with only an allegiance to money and not morality then this violates the human constitution and also violates the US Constitution which is meant to mirror the human constitution.

When US corporations do not swear fealty to the US Constitution, they should be barred from doing business in foreign countries because the damage they do to these foreign countries will come back later and have deleterious consequences upon our own sovereignty.

Bribing foreign politicians and propping corrupt leaders up that will fall victim to bribery by criminal elements in there own countries once their countries have been stripped of basic resources.

Ravaging natural environments for a quick profit while leaving wildlife extinct or on the brink of extinction, air dirty and rivers polluted, etc...
The human constitution is a prerequisite for any type of trade or service inside or outside of our borders.

As Hippocrates says, "First, Do No Harm..."

Making a "greedy" capitalist president is in itself a violation of the US Constitution and a violation of the human constitution.

A man who sees winning as more important than morality and profit more important than honesty and civic duty. A man who lies constantly to his own people and attracts other corrupt people like a magnet is unworthy of such a vocation.

An oligarch who invites corruption in for his own gain, corrupt leaders of countries who have also not sworn allegiance to the human constitution nor the US Constitution. They see only the accumulation of wealth as a goal and not the betterment of nations and their people.

The US Constitution is failing because those in power in both the corporate and political arenas are not made to swear allegiance to this human constitution before they can conduct business on behalf of, "we the people". Not only swear allegiance but to behave seemingly in concert with the ideals of such.

Corporations do not realize for the most part that much more long term profitability and stability comes from respecting the human constitution.

Each person that suffers under despots and dictators is one more life that is wasted and one more member of society who is no able to reach their inherent potential as human beings. So there is one less cure found for disease and one less technological discovery and innovation discovered to facilitate our species fight for survival.

Criminal people who attack education so they can use people as drones to do their profiteering cheaply and without rest should not be permitted to continue their enterprise.

We have only so much time to achieve certain goals necessary to propel our species into space and beyond. Greedy people who suck the life out of others for their own gain and put our entire human race in peril of extinction need to be held accountable for their damage to this world.

These kinds of people have no business in any type of public service whatsoever... Consider that, breaking the code of ethics associated with the human constitution should carry even more of a penalty for presidents than it does for average citizens... Presidents and CEOs have been entrusted with more responsibility and their corruption should be met with the appropriate punishment. They should be held to much more scrutiny, criticism, "investigation", oversight and high standards than one who does not assume such power... Not less, no one is above the law of the human constitution, for to violate humanity requires restitution on the grandest scale.

With no exception, every single human being has a duty to society and the world.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Sun 13 Oct, 2019 05:23 am
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:

Who is legally bound by our US Constitution and what of foreign and domestic interests who want to invest in our country without first swearing an oath to uphold our common values enshrined within this document?


So American companies wishing to trade in Saudi Arabia should swear an oath to uphold Saudi values.

This is an American piece of law. Stop trying to impose it on others. We don't want it over here, at all.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Oct, 2019 05:36 am
@TheCobbler,
I think the premise of this thread is silly. I am not sure if you have read the Constitution.

Most of it sets up the government... apportioning powers to the various branches. The Bill of Rights was put on after additional negotiation.

I think yout views on the Conatiturion are ridiculous. Ironically the Constitution ensures that

1. I can vote against your nonsense ideas and petition the government to act in a way that I see as rational .

2. I can state publicly that your ideas are nonsense.
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Oct, 2019 06:14 am
The Constitution says: "We, the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." The meaning of this is simply We, the people of the United States, acting freely and voluntarily as individuals, consent and agree that we will cooperate with each other in sustaining such a government as is provided for in this Constitution. The necessity for the consent of "the people" is implied in this declaration. The whole authority of the Constitution rests upon it. If they did not consent, it was of no validity. Of course it had no validity, except as between those who actually consented. No one's consent could be presumed against him, without his actual consent being given, any more than in the case of any other contract to pay money, or render service. And to make it binding upon any one, his signature, or other positive evidence of consent, was as necessary as in the case of any other-contract. If the instrument meant to say that any of "the people of the United States" would be bound by it, who did not consent, it was a usurpation and a lie. The most that can be inferred from the form, "We, the people," is, that the instrument offered membership to all "the people of the United States;" leaving it for them to accept or refuse it, at their pleasure.
...Lysander Spooner
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Oct, 2019 07:17 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

We, the people of the United States, acting freely and voluntarily as individuals, consent and agree that we will cooperate with each other in sustaining such a government as is provided for in this Constitution. The necessity for the consent of "the people" is implied in this declaration.

.... No one's consent could be presumed against him, without his actual consent being given, any more than in the case of any other contract to pay money, or render service.


You guys are fetishizing the Constitution.

I never consented to anything... and I certainly never agreed to cooperate with anyone. This is trite nonsense.

I was just born here. They gave me a social security number and told me the police would put me in jail if I used drugs. Then some attractive people on MTV told me I should vote. They did force me to sign up for selective service just in case there was a draft... but I just did that so I could go to college. I didnt mean it.

When did I consent?
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Oct, 2019 08:24 am
@maxdancona,
Calm down. The comment wasn't addressed to you. Nor does it reflect my beliefs (although it has influenced some of them). I think it's an interesting historical take on the Constitution and might lead some people to do a bit of research — or head-scratching.

I never consented either — if you look, you will not see "hightor" among the names of those who signed the document.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Sun 13 Oct, 2019 08:25 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

They did force me to sign up for selective service just in case there was a draft... but I just did that so I could go to college.


****. I didn't know you still had to go through all of that bollocks.
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Region Philbis
 
  2  
Reply Sun 13 Oct, 2019 08:32 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
They did force me to sign up for selective service just in case there was a draft...
i remember freaking out for a couple of days -- might have been 1980 or '81 -- after filling one of those out...
#ThanksReagan
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 13 Oct, 2019 08:37 am
It is in need of an upgrade. Unfortunately, the wrong persons are positioned to make all bad choices.
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  0  
Reply Sun 13 Oct, 2019 11:40 am
@maxdancona,
Yes, human rights and how we are governed are really (as you say) "silly" and "nonsense"... (cynical)

We are much better simply being ruled by greedy republicans who want to capitalize on the tax money of the middle class' to pay for their golf extravaganzas and decadent lifestyles. Hell, why not throw in a few porn stars while we are at it! (cynical)

You come off as being stupid, naive and sheepish.

Kool-Aid comes in many flavors, you apparently have consumed them all, all that seems to be left is a comatose vegetable, damaged and subservient to your corporate and political tormentors.
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Oct, 2019 11:52 am
@izzythepush,
I did not say we should swear an oath to Saudi laws, where in the hell did you ever get that idea? That would be preposterous... Our foreign emissaries and corporations need to swear an oath to our laws first and we should only do most business with countries that also uphold our values and ideals. This also includes upholding our own values "by example" which seems to not happen as often as should.

By allowing our own interests to bypass our Constitution we end up with presidents like Trump and corporate greed, free trade rather than fair and ethical trade and we end up propping up governments that are ruled by less than savory individuals.

We join into world organizations with countries that have not sworn to uphold our own simple and ethical principles of democracy and human rights...

Are we going to not live ourselves by them but expect others to live by them? Should we not expect the shady individuals at the top to abide by them but force those on the bottom to strictly adhere to them?

Ideals without works are dead.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Sun 13 Oct, 2019 12:00 pm
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:

I did not say we should swear an oath to Saudi laws, Where in the hell did you ever get that idea?


It's logical. You say that foreign companies should be expected to swear an oath to uphold American values, then the reverse would be true.

It only follows American companies wanting to trade in Saudi Arabia would have to swear a similar oath.

Do you ever think things through? You come up with ideas, then when someone looks at the most likely consequences of such ideas you act dumbfounded.

Your constitution is yours, and as far as human rights are concerned The Universal Declaration of Human Rights is far more significant.

https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/
TheCobbler
 
  0  
Reply Sun 13 Oct, 2019 12:05 pm
@izzythepush,
Somewhere in your tiny brain you think, democracy, freedom of speech and human rights equal child marriage and hanging gays in the public square... Really sad and pathetic.

It is sloppy thinking like this that has allowed the irrational to assume places of power...

TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Oct, 2019 12:21 pm
Our current US policy has devolved to the point where Saudi Arabia agrees to allow Trump to build his titty bars in Saudi Arabia in exchange for our latest plans for nuclear long range ballistic missiles...

Trump allows Putin to meddle in our elections in exchange for a Moscow Trump Tower...

Our social networks silence civil rights protesters in exchange for selling ads to millions of people.

Countries devalue their currency prolonging the "j curve" in order to gain technological advances on the back of their poor, overworked citizenry.

Is there something wrong with this picture???
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Sun 13 Oct, 2019 12:32 pm
@TheCobbler,
Where did that come from. I post a link to the Universal declaration of Human Rights and you come out with a load of bollocks about human rights abuses.

You do this all the time. You have some madcap scheme which you just pronounce Sermon on the Mount style without thinking it through.

Unfortunately your ego and understanding are inversely proportioned so you're always going to be very disappointed.

You expect adoration from a grateful flock praising your incredible insight. You don't get that because what you're saying is ill conceived. When the very real consequences of your mad schemes are pointed out you become nasty and aggressive.

One big problem is you don't really understand what's being discussed. Your command of English is tenuous to say the least, and you have real problems with comprehension.

If one country insists foreign companies swear some sort of oath to that country then it follows that other countries will demand similar conditions.

I gave Saudi Arabia as an example because it's a country that does a lot of business with America and has an appalling human rights record.

I was pointing out the possible consequences of your ridiculous idea, not advocating the Saudi regime which is why I posted a link to the Universal Declaration of human rights.

It's fairly obvious to anyone, but I was forgetting I was talking to you, and you don't really get what dem words mean.

Things can only be dumbed down so far, and if you're really having such problems with basic English then maybe you should go back to school, or see a doctor.
TheCobbler
 
  0  
Reply Sun 13 Oct, 2019 12:35 pm
@izzythepush,
Pure Euro blather... When Great Britain was wearing the imperial shoe it fit to force others to your draconian ways of subjugation. Huh?

Your subjugation was surely as unethical as Saudi Arabia is today. Burned any witches at a the stake lately?

Our secular human laws are written the quell the disaster that your country helped foster.
 

 
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