What is your opinion of people who just stand by and video tape animals about to get harm or killed

Your judgement that human life is more sacred than all other animal life is just that--a judgment. That judgement is based on your personal values. That's why I asked you what's more important: your wife, or your mother. So which is it? Your wife, or your mother?

I don't see anything here with whoch to argue. You are completely right when you say my judgement is just a judgement. You are also right that my belief that human life is scared is based on my personal moral values.

These are also societal values. Killing a human being is considered murder. Killing an animal is considered dinner. There are some circumstances where killing an animal is a crime, our laws never put this on the level of murder.

Our laws suggest that as a culture we consider the taking of human life to be uniquely immoral. I wouldn't want you to kill either my ex-wife or my mother.

Though I'll probably never be in a situation where I'll have to make such a choice, I'll choose whichever happens to be more important to me. But I understand that importance is relative to the one doing the judging. I may choose to save a particular animal rather than a human. It depends on my relationship with that animal or human.

So, which is more important? Your wife, or your mother? The question wasn't whether you would want to kill your ex-wife or mother. Which one would you save if both were drowning, and you could only save one?

But from an enlightened perspective, no part of the whole is more important than another. If a bear kills and eats a human, then the bear calls it dinner. Humans are prone to call it a killer bear--equal to a murderer, and then go after the mankiller, cuz ya know, that's murder. But it doesn't work the other way around, cuz ya know, it's just an animal.

Actually max, all life has value. Human life is only viewed as 'sacred' because a bunch of meat chomping humans decided that that is how it is. They also found they had the ability to find ways to kill the non-humans.

Anyways, vegetarians and even more so vegans find the non -human animals are as equally sacred - maybe more so, as humans.

The Jains tell us that the immortal and indestructible soul is within every living being- including inside plants.
(and since plants respond to sounds, the Jains might be correct)

No human life is not sacred, Humanity is nothing more then a virus that is destroying life on this planet,and actually want to spread out into the solor system to take over every thing...

So you have no problem with killing humans?

Are you hoping for a nuclear Holocaust? Or would you prefer rounding up human beings into camps and killing them in a more orderly fashion.

Maybe if millions die in an epidemic flu you would be happy?

Moral values are subjective, each person gets to decide for themselves if they want to eat meat, or wear clothes or anything else.

Of course there are cultural values, and most people accept most of them. And we make the strongest cultural values into laws to force people to follow them. I fully support laws that enforce the value of human life that forbid murder and rape.

I don't think the most extreme views about animal life make sense in our modern societies. Building a house involves killing thousands of animals.... we plow up land, cut down trees and spray poison for termites.

According to humans, humans are the most important lifeform on Earth. That opinion is a symptom of selfcenteredness. In that sense, humans are no different from other animals.

But then again, animals are destoying the planet with their poisons and toxic creations. Oh wait, that's what humans are accused of doing. My mistake.

I ascribe a great value to sentience. Humans are the only animal that has been shown to use complex language (other animals can signal information, but only humans can express ideas). Humans are the only terrestrial animal that can devise poetry, or discuss philosophy, or compose a symphony for it's beauty (not that bird songs aren't beautiful, but they evolve for a function, whereas humans create music out of a conscious act of inspiration).

You are wrong about animals not "poisoning the planet". Animals have been drastically altering the Earth's ecosystem from long before humans evolved. Where do you think fossil fuel comes from, or limestone, or the dirt you have in your back yard?

It is funny to me that someone who hates human ingenuity would choose the internet as the place to express it.

Animals are sentient beings. So . . .

It's not the animals that pump the fossil fuel from the earth. Humans do that. Animals didn't cause the great oil leaks that poison the ocean. Humans do that. And the planet couldn't care less about philosophy and poetry and music. Those things do not cancel out, or compensate for, ******* up the environment.

Who said anyone hates human ingenuity? What does human ingenuity have to do with plastic and oil in the ocean. All the songs and poetry in the world can't change that.

I no love for human beings that is true, They have done nothing but destroy life on this planet and they are a species that can never truly be trusted, For they have proven that time and time again through out history, and they get worse every day, Take for example what Obama did by removing The Wolfs off the protection list, Now people have went back to Slaughter and killing wolfs for sport, Go on google images and search slaughter wolfs, No I have no for humanity and never will...

Don't you think you should be saying 'we' instead of 'they'? Like it or not, you are part of the species. In other words, part of the problem.

I am aware of this. I was writing on a less moralistic matter. That of deeming all animal life to be on the same tier as that of humans.


That is your personal belief. It's just that: personal.



It would be nice of us supposedly intellectual beings to figure out ways to murder a few hundred less. Maybe something such as planting some new trees and other plants within close-range of where the building is to take place.


For allegedly intelligent creatures, humans have continually shown themselves to be little more than destructive and wasteful.(or would you decode that as being her another "moral" issue?

I do understand the eating of various items, both plant and animal sort. After that I think it wise to do what can be done to preserve what exists. If we don't, then there won't be a place for future generations to reap food from. That is, if humans don't wreak havoc so great that the planet has no future generations. This is not a moral values matter, it's fact.

And you neglected to indicate how many millions of creatures and plants you've slain and slaughtered by driving. Many times, a healthy walk would have been possible.

Compared to whom?

There are many species that are destructive and wasteful from moths, to wasps to beavers to elephants.

There are plenty of examples of animals being quite destructive to their own environment... and waste is rampant in the non-human animal kingdom.

I have no problem admitting that my beliefs are personal beliefs. All beliefs beliefs are personal beliefs. I don't really get the point you are trying to make.

You are going to have to find a way to measure the destructiveness or waste of a species in an objective way before you go pitting one species of animal against another.

I agree with the basic environmental message, that human being should take care of their environment and think about the impact of their behavior on the environment.

I disagree with the anti-humanist message, that humans are evil and wasteful above all other animal species.

You can have one without the other. In fact there is a strong humanist message that human beings are special as the only species on Earth with the capability to worry about the impact of their behavior on the evironment.

The thing is max, it's known that humans know what they are doing (the majority of the time). So far there's little to no proof that other animals possess this same awareness.

No, Iam not I may have a human body but that does not mean I have a human soul...

But nature provides its own checks and balances. Like, too many rabbits, so increased predator population. Too many predators, so decreased rabbit population, thus decreased predator population. Equilibrium.

I would like to know which animal has caused the same kind of destruction as humans have.