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Is christian doctrine conform to modern values?

Forums: Spirituality And Religion
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sl05
 
Reply Thu 19 May, 2005 09:09 pm
I have no doubt about the usefulness of religion in promoting the morality of people. However, I do find lots of things in the Bible that contradict my (possibly many others') moral values. Here's one of the many examples:

In order to force the Pharaoh to set the Hebrews free, in the last plague, the eldest son in every Egyptian family, including Pharaoh's, died.
My question is why God killed the innocent children instead of punishing
the "evil" Pharaoh.
It is like: A villain kipnapped your son. In order to force him to release your son, you threaten to kill his son and eventually really do so. I don't think anyone nowadays can accept it as a reasonable and humane way to solve the problem.

If God is omnipotent, I must say He has made a mistake.
Do you agree?
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gospelmancan2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2005 12:05 am
Re: Is christian doctrine conform to modern values?
sl05 wrote:
I have no doubt about the usefulness of religion in promoting the morality of people. However, I do find lots of things in the Bible that contradict my (possibly many others') moral values. Here's one of the many examples:

In order to force the Pharaoh to set the Hebrews free, in the last plague, the eldest son in every Egyptian family, including Pharaoh's, died.
My question is why God killed the innocent children instead of punishing
the "evil" Pharaoh.
It is like: A villain kipnapped your son. In order to force him to release your son, you threaten to kill his son and eventually really do so. I don't think anyone nowadays can accept it as a reasonable and humane way to solve the problem.

If God is omnipotent, I must say He has made a mistake.
Do you agree?

Why didn't Pharoah pay attention to the other plagues that came before?
There was a point where he was going to let the people go but with his own conditions on the deal. Paroah's stubbornness was the cause for the death of the fistborn. The plague was announced and if Pharoah had let the people go maybe it wouldn't have happened.
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sl05
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2005 05:16 pm
Re: Is christian doctrine conform to modern values?
gospelmancan2 wrote:

Why didn't Pharoah pay attention to the other plagues that came before?
There was a point where he was going to let the people go but with his own conditions on the deal. Paroah's stubbornness was the cause for the death of the fistborn. The plague was announced and if Pharoah had let the people go maybe it wouldn't have happened.

The main issue here is why God killed the innocent children instead of the man really responsible for the wrongdoing. Using my analogy again, do you think we are morally right to kill the villain's son even if we have repeatedly warned the villain beforehand?
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2005 06:34 pm
SHOULD Christian doctrine conform to modern values? Obviously it doesn't. Without offending the transgendered, let's just take the warnings about adultery: One can hardly fail to realize the tremendous cost to society of broken marriages and broken trust, of parentless children, of venereal disease - should I go on? So, in that case, we would do well to consider the Christian doctrine.

The death of Egyptian firstborn was a tragedy, no doubt. But, did you realize God has promised a resurrection to life on earth for all who never knew of him? Probably not, as the clergy have labored intensely for centuries to keep the truth from us common folk. So, imagine a person who lives for, let's say, 500 years after resurrection. Would he fault God for the example He provided in Exodus or thank God for the gift of life?

The death of firstborn underscores the grief God surely must have endured when He witnessed His only begotten son undergo death accused of treason and blasphemy for the redemption of mankind.
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Marquis de Carabas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 May, 2005 05:33 pm
neologist wrote:
SHOULD Christian doctrine conform to modern values?


No.

Quote:
Without offending the transgendered,


That's not the word you're looking for... May I suggest Transgressors?

Then again we shouldn't offend the transgendered either, nothing is more dangerous than a surly drag queen.

Quote:
So, in that case, we would do well to consider the Christian doctrine.


You're saying that because some of the advise is the kind of really obvious things that any fool could think of, we should follow the ones that only a fool could think of.

Care to justify for me why I should avoid eating shellfish? (no, I'm not allergic). Perhaps why I should wiggle the internal organs of various creatures in a bucket?

Quote:
The death of Egyptian firstborn was a tragedy, no doubt.


And now I'm going to pull a rabbit out of my hat with my left hand....

Quote:
But, did you realize God has promised a resurrection to life on earth for all who never knew of him?


...Quickly everyone watch my right hand wiggle this brightly coloured wand in an eyecatching way...

Quote:
Would he fault God for the example He provided in Exodus or thank God for the gift of life?


...It's magic!
0 Replies
 
Marquis de Carabas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 May, 2005 05:41 pm
Re: Is christian doctrine conform to modern values?
gospelmancan2 wrote:
Why didn't Pharoah pay attention to the other plagues that came before?


Read the bible. The answer to your question is in there. I shouldn't have to be the one to tell you this. Tell you what, I'll make it really easy on you. Exodus 7:4 is one of the (many) places which explains the reasons behind this.

Sorry, was that a rhetorical question?
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 May, 2005 06:02 pm
Ho Hum
0 Replies
 
Terry
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 05:14 pm
Many of the characters in the Bible (and often God himself) do and say things that are immoral by our standards today. The OT is simply not a reliable guide for Christian values. Are there any passages in the New Testament that you take issue with?
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sl05
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 06:23 pm
Terry wrote:
Many of the characters in the Bible (and often God himself) do and say things that are immoral by our standards today. The OT is simply not a reliable guide for Christian values. Are there any passages in the New Testament that you take issue with?

Dear Terry,
Is it really possible to treat the two testaments independently? After all, they are talking about the same god, and Christianity doesn't teach us to ignore the Old Testament. Immoral (?) acts are still immoral, no matter whether they are recorded in the Old or New testament.
I'm a Chinese and wasn't raised in a religious environment. I have great difficulty accepting a faith that contradicts my moral values. I'm interested in the way Christians explain to themselves why those things happen.
0 Replies
 
 

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