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DEFINE NORTH

 
 
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 07:23 pm
Thats all. What is the concept of North?
Extra Credit will be given for information about how true North is established (without GPS)
Further extra credit will be given for a quick and "Non-C&P" esxplanation, in plain English How does GPS determine North. (No polar equations, as I have a roaring headache).
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 4,170 • Replies: 61
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Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 10:38 pm
What I would call vikings if I had a lisp.

Sorry.

Pun demons made me do it.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 10:41 pm
Im just preparing a lecture for a mine survey class and Ill have the little dears out late at night determining north.

Hint, it involves a couple of stars, not just Polaris
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smog
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 10:43 pm
How I once defined "North"
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 10:50 pm
you opt for the demographic approach. I will say that , while your nswer has merit, it is not the ones I am searching for.
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smog
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 10:54 pm
Umm... North is on your right side when you are staring perpendicular to the setting sun on or directly above the horizon?
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smog
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 10:57 pm
Oh right! Something about the handle of the Big Dipper! Or something... Right?
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Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 10:58 pm
Is the solution the same for me as for you? Hint: it's nearly winter.
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 11:00 pm
I give up. Polaris comes closer than any magnetic compass. What more do I need?
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 11:00 pm
you can skip directly to the GPS part of the question. Sorry mate
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Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 11:13 pm
On a clear, starry night (Northern Hemisphere), look up at the sky and find the "Plough" (also known as the seven Sisters).

Locate the two end stars, at the opposite end to the "handle" of the plough. Let's call these two end stars A and B, B being the final star of the Plough.

Trace a straight line starting at "A", through "B" and carry that line on into space until you pass another star (you either hit this star, or come very close). Call this star "C".

Star "C" sits directly above our North "Pole", which, when viewed from earth, all other stars in the Northern Hemisphere appear to revolve around, due to the rotation of our planet.

Stand facing directly towards star "C", point at it and then bring your arm directly vertical, down to the horizon.

You have now located Earths true North.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 11:15 pm
close, very close
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CodeBorg
 
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Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 11:41 pm
farmerman - which north do you mean, geographic or magnetic?
Do you need a fairly precise measurement (1 or 2 degrees), or just good enough to not get lost in the woods?

I assume "non-C&P" means to not Copy-And-Paste from another webpage.

Far as I understand, GPS works by measuring the time it takes a radio signal to reach you from at least four GPS satellites. Each satellite has an atomic clock on board, so at very precise times it transmits certain signals. Your receiver is programmed to "know" the exact orbit of every GPS satellite, so when a signal arrives a nanosecond earlier or later than expected, it knows that it is closer or further from the satellite.

But without a directional antenna, GPS by itself can't tell the direction that the signals come from, no? So you would have to walk in some direction and see how the GPS puts you in a different location. Once you have two points located accurately, you can take a directional heading from them.

Or walk in such a way that your latitude increases, but longitude remains the same.



Usually, I just take the exit that says "highway north" or "Canada 760 miles".

To me North means cold, beautiful, rugged, very friendly people and nicer politicians.
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CodeBorg
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 12:16 am
I guess you could watch a gyroscope for an hour or so.
If it doesn't precess at all then it must be pointing to geographic north. Or south. One or the other.

Or if a vertical gyro starts tipping directly towards you, as you face it, then north must be to the . . . ow that hurts!
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CodeBorg
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 12:27 am
If it's a sunny day, point to the sunrise with your right hand. Hold that position. Wait. A bit longer.
Okay, now point to the sunset with your left hand. Careful, don't move the right hand!
Your nose is pointing north. You may put your arms down now.

Long day, huh? Yeah I hate that.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 12:28 am
This is a guess, but maybe the two poles are the points in the Earth where the axis of rotation emerges, and the North pole is the axis around which the points on the Earth rotate counter clockwise as seen from above the pole.
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Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 12:45 am
Do what Lord Ellpus did 6 months apart and split the difference??
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CodeBorg
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 01:20 am
Moss grows on the north side of trees and boulders. Go look.

North is easy. If your watch is precise enough, measure the angle of the sun from the horizon, factor in what day of the year it is and whether daylight savings time is in effect, then tell your girlfriend to go ask someone for directions.
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Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 01:30 am
CodeBorg wrote:
Moss grows on the north side of trees and boulders. Go look.


Why would it?
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CodeBorg
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 01:56 am
Made in the shade - over time the sun bleaches and wears out things that face south.

Not so much in Arizona where everything gets blasted, but the further north you go the greater the difference is between the north and south faces of anything.
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