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The US air force's attack upon freedom of religion.

 
 
au1929
 
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 09:05 am
The US air force academies ongoing attack upon freedom of religion. And by extension the Air forces as well since that is where most of the officers and it's leaders are made.


Quote:
Air Force Removes Chaplain From Post



Officer Decried Evangelicals' Influence

By T.R. Reid
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, May 13, 2005; Page A04



DENVER, May 12 -- An Air Force chaplain who complained that evangelical Christians were trying to "subvert the system" by winning converts among cadets at the Air Force Academy was removed from administrative duties last week, just as the Pentagon began an in-depth study of alleged religious intolerance among cadets and commanders at the school.

"They fired me," said Capt. MeLinda Morton, a Lutheran minister who was removed as executive officer of the chaplain unit on May 4. "They said I should be angry about these outside groups who reported on the strident evangelicalism at the academy. The problem is, I agreed with those reports."

"The choice of a new executive officer was a standard transition," said Lt. Col. Laurent Fox, an academy spokesman. "The situation is, both the commanding officer [of the chaplain unit] and the executive officer are scheduled to leave this post in a couple of months. It was decided to replace the executive officer now for reasons of continuity."

Amid a rising chorus of complaints about preferential treatment for evangelical Christians -- and command pressure on non-evangelicals -- among the 4,000 cadets, a Pentagon task force is visiting the Colorado Springs campus this week to study the religious atmosphere and propose possible remedial steps.

Morton, whose removal as executive officer was first reported in USA Today, said she has not been asked to brief the task force.

Surveys of present and former cadets have shown that some students said they felt a heavy and sometimes offensive emphasis on evangelical Christianity, with praise for cadets who pronounce their "born-again" status and insults aimed at Jews, Roman Catholics and non-evangelical cadets.

One staff chaplain reportedly told newly arrived freshmen last summer that anyone not born again "will burn in the fires of hell."

Such slurs have been heard for decades on the campus, according to Mikey Weinstein of Albuquerque, a 1977 academy graduate who said he has repeatedly complained to the Air Force brass about the "religious pressure" on cadets. "This is not Christian versus Jew," Weinstein said. "This is the evangelical Christians against everybody else."

The Air Force's new attention to the issue stems from an earlier scandal at the school in which female cadets said commanding officers ignored or played down numerous cases of sexual assault by male students.

As part of its response to the sexual assault charges, the academy asked a team from Yale Divinity School to visit the campus during the summer training for incoming freshmen.

"We were asked to study the quality of cadet-centered pastoral care," said Yale Prof. Kristen Leslie. "What we found was this very strong evangelical Christian voice just dominating. We thought that just didn't make sense in light of their mission, which was to protect and train cadets, not to win religious converts."

Morton, who was executive officer of the squadron of 16 chaplains at the academy, said she shared the concerns expressed by the study group from Yale.




continued
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/12/AR2005051201740.html?referrer=email&referrer=email
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 09:15 am
This is not so surprising. For most of the early history of the United States Military Academy (Westpoint), the religious atmosphere was overwhelmingly Anglican. The denials and fancy footwork don't surprise me either. Of course, objectively it remains to be seen if the allegations are valid. Nevertheless, this sort of atmosphere is not without precedent.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 May, 2005 08:39 am
Published: May 14, 2005


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/14/opinion/14sat2.html?th&emc=th


Damn the constitution full steam ahead say the Born Again Christians. I guess the old saying still holds true. The fish stinks from the head.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jun, 2005 07:44 am
Quote:
Editorial


Zealots at the Air Force Academy




Published: June 11, 2005
In an overdue burst of candor, the superintendent of the Air Force Academy has acknowledged that his campus is so permeated with evangelical proselytizing that it will take years to rid the institution of religious intolerance. Lt. Gen. John Rosa Jr. said he finds the problem of cadets unfairly pressured to adopt Christian beliefs and practices occurring throughout "my whole organization," with offenders among faculty, staff and students.

"Perception is reality," the general apologetically declared of numerous complaints that cadets' constitutional rights have been violated by militant evangelists wielding peer pressure with the blessing of authority figures in the chain of command.

In a meeting with concerned Jewish civilians, General Rosa said recently that the problem is "something that keeps me awake at nights," and that he even had to reprimand his second in command, a born-again Christian, for fervidly pressuring cadets. One campus chaplain went so far as to warn hundreds of cadets that those "not born again" would "burn in the fires of hell," according to campus interviews by the Yale Divinity School. In an authorized study, Yale investigators concluded the problem was rife.

Yet the superintendent's admission was the Air Force's most honest acknowledgment of how bedeviled the campus is. "If everything goes well, it's probably going to take six years to fix it," General Rosa estimated. The problem, however, is that all is not going well. Reforms were promised last year, but were compromised by heavy-handed editing from the Air Force's chief chaplain. When Capt. MeLinda Morton, a Lutheran chaplain, dared to complain of cadets being abused by "systemic and pervasive" proselytizing, the Air Force transferred her to Asia. General Rosa should bring the major back if he is serious about the cleanup.

An inspector general's report is promised soon from the Air Force. But it will take much more prodding, especially civilian pressure from President Bush, Congress and taxpayers, to undo the damage and restore the separation of church and state as a showcase principle at the academy.



Five or six years to "fix" the problem? I should think a few dishonorable discharges and student expulsions would fix the problen in short order.
The real problem is that the fox is guarding the chicken coop.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2005 07:15 am
The great whitewash. How much longer will freedom of religion be tolerated in the USA?


Obfuscating Intolerance

Quote:
Published: June 23, 2005
A Pentagon inquiry's finding of no overt religious discrimination at the Air Force Academy strains credibility, considering the academy superintendent has already acknowledged it will take years to undo the damage from evangelical zealots on campus. Indeed, amid its thicket of bureaucratese, the report by an Air Force investigative panel goes on for page after page describing cases of obvious and overt religious bias. But it tosses all of these off as "perceived bias," as if the blame lies with the victims and not the offenders, and throws up a fog of implausible excuses, like "a lack of awareness" of what is impermissible behavior by military officers.

This muddle stands in stark contrast to an earlier investigation by Yale Divinity School that found widespread problems with intolerance at the academy. That study described faculty members, chaplains and even the football coach as pressuring cadets toward Christian beliefs and hazing them about divergent views on religion. The Pentagon study insisted that this did not amount to a widespread problem for non-Christian cadets who complained of ranking officers encouraging an evangelical fervor.

Without offering details, the Air Force panel did refer seven specific incidents to the chain of command for possible investigation. These hardly had a sense of urgency, however, as investigators insisted the problem was merely accidental insensitivity by some "probably well-intentioned" faculty and staff members who were expressing their faith in "inappropriate" ways. There was far less hedging in the earlier apology and admission of a considerable problem by Lt. Gen. John Rosa Jr., the academy superintendent, when he addressed Jewish leaders concerned about possible anti-Semitism on campus.

Lt. Gen. Roger Brady, who headed the study, said the entire nation was increasingly facing questions about the proper bounds of religious expression. That is so, but he vastly overstated his case when he said that keeping religion out of military education was a complicated matter. Religious faith, or lack of it, is a precious individual right and everyone on the academy's campus has sworn to protect the Constitution in which it is enshrined. Sadly, now that Air Force investigators have spoken to this point so equivocally, the burden of actually restoring the academy's reputation is more than ever a problem
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2005 11:06 pm
au1929 wrote:
How much longer will freedom of religion be tolerated in the USA?


Is this a serious question on your part?

Well you have already stopped tolerating freedom of religion.

Apparently you are frustrated when you look over your shoulder and see no one following your lead.

What is your next step? Intolerance of freedom enforced by ..........?
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2005 06:58 am
real life
No I have no toleration for those in power attempting to force their religion upon others. The allegations noted herein have been verified and acknowledged.
Do you agree that the actions of the religious community at the academy was and is acting improperly. And in fact is making a doormat out of the separation of church and state principle? Or do you feel their actions were justified.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2005 07:27 am
au1929 wrote:
real life
No I have no toleration for those in power attempting to force their religion upon others. The allegations noted herein have been verified and acknowledged.
Do you agree that the actions of the religious community at the academy was and is acting improperly. And in fact is making a doormat out of the separation of church and state principle? Or do you feel their actions were justified.


The question which you posed:
Quote:
How much longer will freedom of religion be tolerated in the USA?


This question is much broader than the situation at the Air Force academy. You appear ready to reverse 200 years of history of freedom of religion to suit your personal bias. That is the thrust of your statement.

Do you admit to that?
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2005 08:55 am
Life
The question was asked in light of the government allowing this be fostered where are future military leaders are taught and developed.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2005 09:17 am
au1929 wrote:
Life
The question was asked in light of the government allowing this be fostered where are future military leaders are taught and developed.


So you are ready to throw out Freedom of Religion , our 1st amendment freedom based on the alleged mistakes of some AF personnell.

Should we then throw out Freedom of the Press because some "reporters" tend to editorialize?

Should we then throw out the privilege of the vote because Michael Moore registered to vote at two separate residences?

Turn off the TV and think, Au.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2005 09:37 am
Real
What the hell are you blathering about? The goings on at the Air Force academy is an attack upon freedom of religion. The same people will be going on to leadership positions in the military. Filled with the mindset they learned and practiced at the academy. You see no danger in that. I suppose not since they are of your religious persuasion.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2005 07:36 pm
au1929 wrote:
Real
What the hell are you blathering about? The goings on at the Air Force academy is an attack upon freedom of religion. The same people will be going on to leadership positions in the military. Filled with the mindset they learned and practiced at the academy. You see no danger in that. I suppose not since they are of your religious persuasion.


I've made no statement on the AF academy. However your call for an end to toleration of freedom of religion makes you far more dangerous than they could ever be.

You have at various times hinted strongly that you think Christians should be eliminated in one way or other. Why don't you state outright what you would do about Christians if you were in charge? I'm sure continuation of freedom of speech and religion would not be on your agenda for them.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jul, 2005 06:53 am
Real
You made no statement about the AF academy, says you.
What may I ask do you think this thread is about? As for the demise of Christianity. It is not demise I crave but keeping it in the houses of worship where it belongs and out of government and the legislative process.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jul, 2005 07:40 am
au1929 wrote:
As for the demise of Christianity. It is not demise I crave but keeping it in the houses of worship where it belongs and out of government and the legislative process.


Yes and that is YOUR attack on freedom of religion.

Do you really think that limiting the places where someone can speak and under what circumstances they may speak is not an attack of freedom of speech? A few AF personnell refuse to be consigned to your Warsaw Ghetto for the Religious, and it's more than you can stand.

Also, the Founders of this country would not agree with your view of government.

Read their speeches and public pronouncements while in office, read the opinions handed down by the Supreme court and the lower courts of the day, read the debates of Congress as they consider new laws and debated amendments to existing ones-- they are filled with references to religion, Biblical quotations and allusions, arguments regarding morality and divine law.

You are completely out of touch with their manner of thought in regard to this.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jul, 2005 09:19 am
Real
I am not quite sure what nation you speak of. But the principle of separation of church and state has been well established in this nation. And if you know anything about the founders of this nation you would know they were very much in favor of that ideal. There have been more than few threads on that subject. In addition there are many on the web as well.

real wrote
Quote:
Do you really think that limiting the places where someone can speak and under what circumstances they may speak is not an attack of freedom of speech? A few AF personnel refuse to be consigned to your Warsaw Ghetto for the Religious, and it's more than you can stand.


What was being attacked is freedom of religion? And separation of church and state. I suggest you read the article once more and perhaps it will penetrate the fog of religion. I would note the allegations have been investigated and substantiated. And now allegedly action to correct has been undertaken.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jul, 2005 09:21 pm
au1929 wrote:
Real
I am not quite sure what nation you speak of. But the principle of separation of church and state has been well established in this nation. And if you know anything about the founders of this nation you would know they were very much in favor of that ideal.


The phrase "separation of church and state" appears only once in the writings of the Founding fathers.

It is in a letter by President Jefferson ( a full decade after the Constitution had been written ).

In his letter, he is responding to the fears of the clergymen of Danbury that one denomination might take pre-eminence over the others and assert itself as a National denomination, much as the nations of Europe had national religions and even some of the states had for a time a dominant body.

Jefferson assures them his opposition to any such thing. But NOWHERE does he hint that he believes that religious principle should not direct nations and legislatures and government officials.

Perhaps you should read it.

In fact, Jefferson when authoring the Declaration of Independence, stated that the very reason governments existed were to secure for men the inalienable rights given by God. Also if any government would not perform this task Jefferson wrote that it was a people's duty to alter or abolish it.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2005 07:14 am
Real

Notes on the Founding Fathers and the Separation of Church and State





http://www.theology.edu/journal/volume2/ushistor.htm


One of many on the web disputing the position that the US was founded as a Christian nation. And confirms the Separation of Church and state.

Do a little homework. You may learn something.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2005 07:34 am
au1929 wrote:
Real

Notes on the Founding Fathers and the Separation of Church and State





http://www.theology.edu/journal/volume2/ushistor.htm


One of many on the web disputing the position that the US was founded as a Christian nation. And confirms the Separation of Church and state.

Do a little homework. You may learn something.


As I think I've mentioned to you before, I prefer to directly read the writings of the Founders unfiltered and unspun. Thanks.

You might try reading the Federalist Papers in it's entirety for starters. This is the Founding Fathers views, in their own words, not someone elses.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2005 07:44 am
Real
You will find an abundance of quotes and historical data on and from these people. As you say in their own words.
Unfortunately your need to support your religious views and beliefs distorts your ability to accept the truth. So be it. Hope you find salvation in your religious fog. Have a nice day!
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2005 02:06 pm
Military Wrestles With Disharmony Among Chaplains





By Alan Cooperman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, August 30, 2005; Page A01The growing influence of evangelical Protestants is roiling the military chaplain corps, where their desire to preach their faith more openly is colliding with long-held military traditions of pluralism and diversity.After accusations this summer that evangelical chaplains, faculty and coaches were pressuring cadets at the Air Force Academy, the Air Force yesterday issued new guidelines on respect for religious minorities. In the Navy, evangelical Protestant chaplains are fighting what they say is a legacy of discrimination in hiring and promotions, and they are bridling at suggestions they not pray publicly "in the name of Jesus.

'The growing influence of evangelical Protestants is roiling the military chaplain corps, where their desire to preach their faith more openly is colliding with long-held military traditions of pluralism and diversity.
Much of the conflict is in two areas that, until now, have been nearly invisible to civilians: how the military hires its ministers and how they word their public prayers. Evangelical chaplains -- who are rising in numbers and clout amid a decline in Catholic priests and mainline Protestant ministers -- are challenging the status quo on both questions, causing even some evangelical commanders to worry about the impact on morale."There is a polarization that is beginning to set up that I don't think is helpful. Us versus them," said Air Force Col. Richard K. Hum, an Evangelical Free Church minister who is the executive director of the Armed Forces Chaplains Board. "I don't know whether it's an overflow of what's happening in society. But this sort of thing is so detrimental to what we are trying to do in the chaplaincy."The Rev. MeLinda S. Morton, a Lutheran minister who resigned in June as an Air Force chaplain after criticizing the religious atmosphere at the Air Force Academy, said there has been a palpable rise in evangelical fervor not just among chaplains but also among the officer corps in general since she joined the military in 1982, originally as a launch officer in a nuclear missile silo."When we were coneheads -- missile officers -- I would never, ever have engaged in conversations with subordinates aligning my power and position as an officer with my views on faith matters," she said. Today, "I've heard of people being made incredibly uncomfortable by certain wing commanders who engage in sectarian devotions at staff meetings."Diversity Without Quotas
The tradition of chaplains in the U.S. military goes back to George Washington, who first sought a minister for his Virginia regiment in 1756. In the early days of the republic, commanders simply chose a chaplain who shared their beliefs. But with the expansion of the military in World War II, the armed services set quotas for chaplains of various faiths, attempting to match the proportion of each denomination in the general population.In a class-action lawsuit -- filed in 1999 in U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia and still in the discovery, or evidence-gathering, stage -- more than 50 Navy chaplains contend that the formula became a rigid and discriminatory "thirds rule": one-third Catholics, one-third mainline Protestants and one-third everybody else.According to Hum, the military abandoned numerical targets about 20 years ago, partly for legal reasons and partly because the proliferation of religious groups made the system unworkable. Although chaplains are paid by the armed services, they must be ordained and "endorsed," or nominated, by religious organizations. The number of endorsers has grown from about 10 denominations in 1945 to more than 240 groups today, Hum said.Like college admissions officers, Pentagon officials now say they seek diversity without using quotas."We don't actually say we want to have four rabbis this year, or 20 Catholic priests. What we do is, we look at who is sent to us by our endorsers throughout the country and . . . then we bring the best qualified into the chaplain corps," Rear Adm. Louis V. Iasiello, a Catholic priest and the chief of Navy chaplains, said in an interview at the Pentagon's Navy Annex.Pentagon data analyzed by The Washington Post show a substantial rise in the number of evangelical chaplains in the past decade, along with a modest decline in mainline Protestant ministers and a precipitous drop in Catholic priests, mirroring a nationwide priest shortage.

Continued pg 2&3
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/29/AR2005082902036.html?referrer=email
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