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United Nations to ban religion?

 
 
brahmin
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 May, 2005 02:49 am
they cant ban religion - but they can ban attempts at its propagation / preaching/ conversion.


its :thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself"


not


" thou shalt chuck thy religion".
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jul, 2005 02:24 pm
http://protestwarrior.com/nimages/signs/thumb/pw_sign_29.gif
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jul, 2005 10:32 pm
brahmin wrote:
thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself


Can you not see the self-contradiction in issuing this commandment?
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jul, 2005 10:36 pm
brahmin wrote:


the un does so much to protect the heritage of the world - declare the pyramids and the machu pichu and the taj mahal as world heritage monuments and stuff - just so that the heritage of the world is not washed away - so why the hell does it allow the conversion of the last remaining members of any society, like for example the Hopi indians or the Maoris of New Zealand ???



Should the UN send in troops to forbid the Hopis from considering any other beliefs than what their great great grandparents held to?
0 Replies
 
diagknowz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jul, 2005 10:51 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
The fact it went nowhere ought to tell you something.


Hopefully you're right, EB, but I have the feeling that it's simply a retrovirus that will come up again elsewhere, and with more horsepower.

As in something like this: Racial and Religious Hatred Bill [http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmbills/011/06011.i-i.html)
0 Replies
 
diagknowz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jul, 2005 10:53 pm
brahmin wrote:
they cant ban religion - but they can ban attempts at its propagation / preaching/ conversion.


Artificial distinction, Brahmin.
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2005 01:05 am
Religion isn't the problem, the problem is bigotry.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2005 07:17 am
goodfielder wrote
Quote:
Religion isn't the problem, the problem is bigotry
.

True however, it is also true that religion is a precursor to and the fuel that feeds bigotry and intolerance.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2005 08:05 am
au1929 wrote:
goodfielder wrote
Quote:
Religion isn't the problem, the problem is bigotry
.

True however, it is also true that religion is a precursor to and the fuel that feeds bigotry and intolerance.


Yes you are quite an example of tolerance yourself.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2005 09:16 am
real life
Another one of your snappy comebacks.
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sunlover
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2005 09:24 am
Yes, and all the churches can be remodeled as bowling alleys.

Seriously, though, religions shouldn't make rules and expect people to follow them, or pretend some expertise in things psychological, cultural, sexual, and spiritual. Neither should they "punish" people by excommunicating them. That leaves...?
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2005 11:43 am
sunlover wrote:
Seriously, though, religions shouldn't make rules and expect people to follow them....


Isn't that exactly what YOU are doing with your statement?

You are making a rule about what religious folk should and shouldn't say and expecting everyone else should follow it, aren't you?

Free speech for you, but not for others, right?
0 Replies
 
sunlover
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2005 08:36 pm
Clergy could teach scripture, parents make rules.

Is this the "bitch fight?" about the Jesus Seminars, or whatever it was. Haven't seen any Jesus Seminars myself, how about you?
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2005 09:50 pm
sunlover wrote:


Is this the "bitch fight?" about the Jesus Seminars, or whatever it was. Haven't seen any Jesus Seminars myself, how about you?


Sorry I couldn't participate if it was. I think Setanta's dogs must've got loose and begun fighting, causing havoc while he was posting, resulting in some befuddlement for him.

Perhaps it's time to adjust his meds again.

The Jesus Seminars that Frank is referring to is an ongoing series of meetings and resultant publications to rewrite the Bible in a form that secularized man can accept.

It starts with many presuppositions , such as the Bible is not inspired by God, there is no possibility of miraculous occurences, etc and pares down the Scripture as guided by the predetermined bias.

The result is a Bible that the authors would not recognize as their own writing.

It is populated largely by liberal clergymen who have the required distaste for traditional Christian belief. (surprise!)

They manage to get a cover story in either Time or Newsweek like clockwork every Easter or Christmas. Part of the objective media's "search for truth" I'm sure. Funny they never have a cover story featuring traditional Christian scholarship. Maybe what you believe is only news if you are liberal.
0 Replies
 
sunlover
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2005 05:19 pm
Real Life, sorry I haven't answered posts but my computer was ill.

Somewhere back there you answered one of my comments about translation of documents scripted prior to the Crucifixion of Christ about the ancient world that was not included in the eventual "Christian" bible assembled by the Roman Catholic Church. You said material had been translated down through "the centuries."

The material I refer to would an entire "Gnostic" library that was unearthed in 1945, in Nag Hammadi, Egypt. This trove was published in its entirety in 1977. Another discovery, an entire cuneiform library, when the ancient city of Ugrit was unearthed by archeologists in 1929 on the coast of Syria at a place called Ra's Shamra.

Biblical scholars don't exactly come in high number and the translation process is slow and arduous. Actually, according to the last book I read by religious scholars, by Mark H. Gaffney and entitled Gnostic Secrets of the Naassenes, what is found in all this material simply connects all of the great religions together, by revealing what has been removed or changed and what is a fabrication (of the Christian bible).

I have never studied Islam and have no idea what the Quran holds but perhaps I could do just that.

I think this forum is for the most part, political. There's always a new bunch coming in, one leaving, in this religious board. I'm through here, but I think writing this stuff down and arguing over it is helpful to see just what is in our minds.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2005 07:24 pm
sunlover wrote:
Real Life, sorry I haven't answered posts but my computer was ill.

Somewhere back there you answered one of my comments about translation of documents scripted prior to the Crucifixion of Christ about the ancient world that was not included in the eventual "Christian" bible assembled by the Roman Catholic Church. You said material had been translated down through "the centuries."

The material I refer to would an entire "Gnostic" library that was unearthed in 1945, in Nag Hammadi, Egypt. This trove was published in its entirety in 1977. Another discovery, an entire cuneiform library, when the ancient city of Ugrit was unearthed by archeologists in 1929 on the coast of Syria at a place called Ra's Shamra.

Biblical scholars don't exactly come in high number and the translation process is slow and arduous. Actually, according to the last book I read by religious scholars, by Mark H. Gaffney and entitled Gnostic Secrets of the Naassenes, what is found in all this material simply connects all of the great religions together, by revealing what has been removed or changed and what is a fabrication (of the Christian bible).

I have never studied Islam and have no idea what the Quran holds but perhaps I could do just that.

I think this forum is for the most part, political. There's always a new bunch coming in, one leaving, in this religious board. I'm through here, but I think writing this stuff down and arguing over it is helpful to see just what is in our minds.


Hi Sunlover,

It is helpful to discuss and "compare notes" so to speak.

One thing you will find as you compare religious views is that Christianity is distinct from all the rest.

Christ came to save from sin because there is no way to save ourselves. Our best efforts will not change the fact that we are sinners.

In all other religions, if you try hard enough you can be saved. It's up to you and your effort.

You are right, there is a lot of crossover between politics and religion in this forum. I guess that's because they both are addressing the questions of what is right and what is wrong in various contexts, so it's probably unavoidable.

The so called "lost Gospels" and other writings may be new to us, but they were not unknown to the early church as the Bible was being formed. These other writings were not included because they did not agree with the other scriptures. They might have interesting perspectives from a human standpoint but are not inspired by God the way the Biblical texts are.

I wish you well wherever you go, Sunlover. If you do stop in at a later time, be sure to say hi.
0 Replies
 
sunlover
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2005 10:12 pm
Real Life, it's not real possible to discuss a book with someone who hasn't read it.

No, certainly the lost gospels were not unknown to the early church as the bible was being formed! How else would these early church officials decide to leave them out unless they did "know" them.
And, they were not lost, but destroyed. Listen to what the author said in a small paragraph at the beginning of his book:

"We are going to examine powerful evidence that the Gnostic element was present in Christianity from the beginning, and was, in fact, the very heart of the teachings of Jesus. We will discover that the Gnostic controversy that developed in the second century C.E.--the issue that obsessed Church leaders such as Irenaeus--occurred not because Christianity became polluted by Gnostic heresy, as the Church argued and still contends, but because the bishops of the fledgling Church so rearranged their priorities in their attempts to consolidate institutional Christianity that they lost contact with their own spiritual (Gnostic) roots."

Actually, some of the books that were not included in the bible were: The books of Thomas, Mary, Philip, the Apocryphon of John, the Apocryphon of James, the Dialogue of the Savior, and the Testimony of Truth, all from the Nag Hammadi Library.

Oh, I'm not going anywhere. I'd just like a rest from "Religion and Spirituality."

I never knew that all religions don't teach their students (after all, they are only teachers) of the indwelling God in all of us, which is the great secret the Church didn't understand. So, what they did was replace the entire concept with "The Church." It is only The Church" that can save us all, right? God, I hope not. The Church has never worked and hasn't changed in 2000 years.

God gave us all innate curiosity.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2005 10:48 pm
sunlover wrote:
Real Life, it's not real possible to discuss a book with someone who hasn't read it.

No, certainly the lost gospels were not unknown to the early church as the bible was being formed! How else would these early church officials decide to leave them out unless they did "know" them.
And, they were not lost, but destroyed. Listen to what the author said in a small paragraph at the beginning of his book:

"We are going to examine powerful evidence that the Gnostic element was present in Christianity from the beginning, and was, in fact, the very heart of the teachings of Jesus. We will discover that the Gnostic controversy that developed in the second century C.E.--the issue that obsessed Church leaders such as Irenaeus--occurred not because Christianity became polluted by Gnostic heresy, as the Church argued and still contends, but because the bishops of the fledgling Church so rearranged their priorities in their attempts to consolidate institutional Christianity that they lost contact with their own spiritual (Gnostic) roots."

Actually, some of the books that were not included in the bible were: The books of Thomas, Mary, Philip, the Apocryphon of John, the Apocryphon of James, the Dialogue of the Savior, and the Testimony of Truth, all from the Nag Hammadi Library.

Oh, I'm not going anywhere. I'd just like a rest from "Religion and Spirituality."

I never knew that all religions don't teach their students (after all, they are only teachers) of the indwelling God in all of us, which is the great secret the Church didn't understand. So, what they did was replace the entire concept with "The Church." It is only The Church" that can save us all, right? God, I hope not. The Church has never worked and hasn't changed in 2000 years.

God gave us all innate curiosity.


No it's not the Church that saves. You didn't hear that from me.



Jesus did not teach that God indwells all of us.------------

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

46Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.



and the apostles did not teach that God indwells all---------------

I John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

II John 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.


Take good care, and stay curious.
0 Replies
 
Algis Kemezys
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2005 06:16 am
On the island of Crete they are looking for the next messiah.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2005 07:06 am
Algis.Kemezys wrote:
On the island of Crete they are looking for the next messiah.


Thanks for bumping up your post count, Algis. Your point?
0 Replies
 
 

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