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Martin Luther King's and Gandhi's Non-violence

 
 
Reply Sun 1 May, 2005 07:45 am
I have a tribute on my site to MLK (over in the left hand column about midway down. It's pretty cool, you should listen to it.Here). It's a grand understatment to say MLK and Gandhi were great men for what they accomplished. I read Gandhi's book 'My Experiments in Truth' back in my 'spiritual searching' daze (yes 'daze').

The pacifism/non-violence they used should not be a universal truth. The non-violenced used by Gandhi and MLK was a method used in correct circumstances. I don't know if MLK would have used it in all cases, I do know Gandhi would have. If MLK or Gandhi would have tried non-violence in Taliban Afghanistan or Nazi Germany they would've been beheaded or gassed and thus ending their great moral movements. Pacifism assumes everyone is good at heart and reasonable, that the oppressor or tyrant only need enlightenment brought about by the suffering of the oppressed. This is rarely true and endangers civilization. Here's a quote from Gandhi to prove the naivete this non-violent pacifistic stance. He directed the following words of advice to the suffering of Jews in Germany during the Third Reich.



Quote:
"I am as certain as I am dictating these lines that the stoniest German heart will melt [if only the Jews] adopt active non-violence...I do not despair of his [Hitler's] responding to human suffering even though caused by him."





I shutter to think what the world might look like if Gandhi would have been the leader of England and not the proponent of moral violence, Winston Churchill.

Granted, civil disobedience works when the good hearted and reasonable outnumber the evil and unreasonable. It works better than violence although not immediately when you're dealing with a Winston Churchill or Lyndon B. Johnson because there is a chance to create opportunity for reasoning together. MLK appealed to the founding fathers' principle of liberty and pointed this out to the white majority. He used the Constitution against the decedents whose forefathers wrote it. That was simple and brilliant. The British ruled India, but they were basically civilized people who finally listened. They 'tolerated' Gandhi's active pacifism. They let him slide. But, they knew, based on their own moral standards, that Gandhi held the moral high ground as did King. The British realized, as did Americans with the Civil Rights movement, that they were contradicting what was supposed to be their own values. That's why it worked.

The philosophy of non-violence or pacifism only works in atmosphere where people are willing to think a second time. Pacifism will not work against Islamo-fascist, Nazis, drug cartels or terrorist. I think if you move to a universal stance of non-violence it's an immoral position and will ultimately result in murder and tyranny.
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Letty
 
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Reply Sun 1 May, 2005 08:16 am
Creed of Kings, welcome to A2K. Excellent treatise, but it will require some thought, on my part at least.
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edgarblythe
 
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Reply Sun 1 May, 2005 08:42 am
Humankind has to be led to a position of non violence, a process requiring many avenues of effort, including force, believe it or not, and it may require at least a few more centuries. Assuming we survive in a free enough state that long.
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ebrown p
 
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Reply Sun 1 May, 2005 10:13 am
Quote:

Granted, civil disobedience works when the good hearted and reasonable outnumber the evil and unreasonable. It works better than violence although not immediately when you're dealing with a Winston Churchill or Lyndon B. Johnson because there is a chance to create opportunity for reasoning together. MLK appealed to the founding fathers' principle of liberty and pointed this out to the white majority.


This passage shows the problem with your thesis. The agents of the British society at the time were perfectly willing to do things that would kill peaceful Indians-- and Churchhill was a party to this. This is hardly good-hearted.

Likewise, the society of MLK was willing to unleash dogs on protesters and supported lynching. Much of society was a party to this. Again, good hearted is a problematic term in this context.

That of God in every man is a key to to the non-violent philosophy (this shows my Quaker roots). This is a belief that human beings have good in them, and if you confront them with their wrongs... you can reach this part.

There is power in this belief.

Let's look at the Nazi's as an extreme example. Could non-violence have worked? I think so... not from the Jews as you suggest, (who at this time had been dehumanized and were victims) but Non-violence could have been a powerful tool in the hands of German liberals.

The key to the Nazi movement (or any other political movement) was that it was run by very evil people, and accepted by a large part of the population. This acceptance is what needed to be brought to light. Had enough German people stood up in the face of a clearly evil leader... had they not been silent but had refused to be a part of evil it would have been a very powerful weapon against the Nazi regime.

The reaction of the German people when they were confronted with the evils commited in their name is evidence of this. Had a peaceful movement existed to make them see the barbarism, it would have taken away their tacit acceptance and caused them to confront the horrors of their society much earlier.

Incidently there were non-violent acts that had a big effect-- Arthor Schindler, and Corrie Ten Boom for example. A brave public show of defiance by enough people may have had an even greater effect.

The biggest precept of non-violence is that a righteous person will not do evil for any reason. The use of violence by others does not justify its use by you.

The most clear thoughts on this are from Jesus as recorded in the Gospels.

Jesus wrote:

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

(Gospel of Matthew Chapter 5)

(emphasis mine)

The idea is the you should be righteous no matter what. Doing what is right as an individual is the best way to make the world a better place. This means not using violence in any circumstance.

You may be right that this is impractical in todays world, but I am not so sure....
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