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Genetically Modified With Human Genes - Will You Eat It?

 
 
yitwail
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 12:27 am
i want to add something to the disease angle mentioned in a few other posts. while generally true that diseases are less likely to cross species barriers, the ones that do can be deadly. mad cow is not only one of the latest, but also troubling, in that it first occured in sheep, then in cows that ate sheep parts, then cows that ate cow parts, and lastly people eating cow parts. the cannibalism concern is more than a figure of speech here, because another disease, kuru, which has highly similar symptoms to mad cow, was spread among the Fore tribe in New Guinea through the ritual practice of eating the brains of dead people.

the HIV virus is also most likely a mutated form of a monkey or ape virus. so i think extreme care is called for when making a GMO using human genes, to ensure there won't be some freak recombination that produces a lethal human disease.
0 Replies
 
watchmakers guidedog
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 05:30 am
tommrr wrote:
So if a baseball player eats the rice, would he violate the MLB drug policy concerning human growth hormones?


You do realise that liver enzymes and HGHs are different substances, correct?

Quote:
While generally true that diseases are less likely to cross species barriers, the ones that do can be deadly.


Naturally. Diseases hate harming the host (anthropomorphically speaking of course) it's only by missing the left turn at alberqerque and ending up in the wrong species that they become deadly.

Quote:
mad cow is not only one of the latest, but also troubling, in that it first occured in sheep


Creutzfeldt-Jakob is a rather complex issue, I'll leave off discussing it for now and focus on the thread. However it's not your average disease, it's a prion which makes it quite different from viruses and bacteria. Hardly a typical example and its very versatility in crossing species barriers makes it entirely irrelevant to this discussion. (by being able to cross 3 barriers as you pointed out, a minor increase in simularity between two species will not significantly alter its probability of spreading).

Quote:
So i think extreme care is called for when making a GMO using human genes, to ensure there won't be some freak recombination that produces a lethal human disease.


Minor care is called for, perhaps even negligable care.

The circumstances by which a virus develops in either the human or rice population, in which the production of a single enzyme in the liver makes the difference between it being able to jump species barriers (in this case KINGDOM barriers) and not being able to, is so improbably unlikely that I would almost consider it impossible.

Far more likely would be for the rice to suffer as a microscopic organism adapted to dwell inside rice turns out to be hostile to the new form of rice. Or that by spreading genetically identical rice a monoculture develops which causes the rice to suffer heavy losses to disease.

However, the implications of this genetic manipulation in rice, as it relates to human diseases are negligable worries. Which I'm sure that the scientists working on the project were well aware of when they decided to use the gene.

In the cases where there IS an actual risk from the genetic manipulation the scientists working on it will be sufficiently educated to realise this and take it into account. Mass public hysteria acting from an uninformed viewpoint is not helpful to the discussion. Particularly as this technology presents the possibility of feeding the starving populations of the world.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 06:28 am
Crazielady420 wrote:
Does that mean we are eating other humans or parts of humans??

No. If true, this story means you are eating rice from a plant that is immune to certain poisons. It wouldn't turn the rice into anything sentient, or give it any cognitive abilities, or do anything else to make it "more human" in any sense that would be ethically problematic.
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Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 06:29 am
I have such mixed feelings about GMO's. We have been eating them for years (especially in grains, almost all beer is from GMO grains). This type of science has potential for great good and great harm. The problem is they really don't do extensive field testing and any long terms effects will not be seen for years. I don't think we have a choice, it's here, it's staying, and the results will eventually be known one way or another.
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 06:35 am
I'm not eatin nothin with no human genes and that's that.

I was going to mention the mad cow thing, but that has already been covered here.

It's just not natural!
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 06:47 am
squinney wrote:
They are talking about Human genes that have been added to the food (rice) that will evidently alter our digestive system so that we can better breakdown pesticides.

That's not what your article says. What it says is they will alter the rice plant's digestive system so that the plant can better break down pesticides. Any rice plants that may be frequenting A2K certainly have standing to protest against this as being repulsive, but I don't see how the human posters do.

Bella Dea wrote:
It's meat.

Out of curiosity, what is your definition of "meat"?

FreeDuck wrote:
So, what if it turns out that they have some unforseen effect on the human body that is not desirable? How would we undo it?

I would have said the same way we undid the unforseen effects of the past 10,000 year's worth of gene manipulations (also known as "selective breeding" -- by not continuing to grow the crop in question, or by evolving to adapt to the side effects, as in the case of lactose intolerance.

Bella Dea wrote:
Most people wouldn't get that far in reasoning why they wouldn't eat another human.

Montana wrote:
I'm not eatin nothin with no human genes and that's that.

Are you aware we already have quite a few genes in common with rice plants, even rice plants in the wild? Are you aware that the percentage of shared genes is well into the nineties for pigs, cows, and other animals we routinely eat -- and that it has been that high even before we started breeding them?
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 06:54 am
If it tastes good I'm eating it. That's that.
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 06:58 am
Thomas
We may have genes in common, but adding them is a whole different ballgame.

Yes, I am aware of all these things.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 07:07 am
Montana wrote:
We may have genes in common, but adding them is a whole different ballgame.

Why? Why is it a whole different ballgame if you go from 37.1214% shared genes to 37.1215% ? (I'm making up the percentage, but the thrust of the argument wouldn't change if we started from 10% or from 70%)
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 07:13 am
I don't know, Thomas. I just don't like the idea. It isn't natural to fool with mother nature.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 07:25 am
Montana wrote:
I don't know, Thomas. I just don't like the idea. It isn't natural to fool with mother nature.

No problem, you just don't buy that sort of rice then. Just to understand your position, is it your contention that it ought to be illegal for businesses to produce genetically engineered plants and sell their crops to people who, unlike you, do want to buy them?
0 Replies
 
yitwail
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 10:15 am
watchmakers guidedog wrote:
Quote:
mad cow is not only one of the latest, but also troubling, in that it first occured in sheep


Creutzfeldt-Jakob is a rather complex issue, I'll leave off discussing it for now and focus on the thread. However it's not your average disease, it's a prion which makes it quite different from viruses and bacteria. Hardly a typical example and its very versatility in crossing species barriers makes it entirely irrelevant to this discussion. (by being able to cross 3 barriers as you pointed out, a minor increase in simularity between two species will not significantly alter its probability of spreading).

Quote:
So i think extreme care is called for when making a GMO using human genes, to ensure there won't be some freak recombination that produces a lethal human disease.


Minor care is called for, perhaps even negligable care.

The circumstances by which a virus develops in either the human or rice population, in which the production of a single enzyme in the liver makes the difference between it being able to jump species barriers (in this case KINGDOM barriers) and not being able to, is so improbably unlikely that I would almost consider it impossible.

good to see somebody's paying attention. Stanley Prusiner won a Nobel for theorizing that BSE/scrapie/kuru/Creutzfeldt-Jakob is caused by a protein pathogen. unless the PRNP (prion) gene is being inserted into rice, the odds of any mishap are minimal, most probably. on the other hand, nobody before Prusiner thought proteins could transmit disease; i just feel caution is warranted because there might be unintended consequences.
0 Replies
 
yitwail
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 10:31 am
watchmakers guidedog wrote:
[Mass public hysteria acting from an uninformed viewpoint is not helpful to the discussion. Particularly as this technology presents the possibility of feeding the starving populations of the world.


i can't disagree with your view on hysteria. however, the goal of feeding multitudes is a bit unrealistic, unless there's a way of securing safe drinking water for those multitudes, something that does not exist at present.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 10:34 am
Thomas wrote:
Montana wrote:
I don't know, Thomas. I just don't like the idea. It isn't natural to fool with mother nature.

No problem, you just don't buy that sort of rice then. Just to understand your position, is it your contention that it ought to be illegal for businesses to produce genetically engineered plants and sell their crops to people who, unlike you, do want to buy them?


I'm speaking out of turn and only for myself, but my contention is that it ought to be labeled so that paranoid wackos like myself know what they're putting in their bodies.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 10:39 am
Yeah, what FreeDuck said goes for me as well. Tell me it's there and I wouldn't have much problem with it.

On that note I'd also like to add that I don't think it's a good idea to mess with genetics.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 10:41 am
FreeDuck wrote:
I'm speaking out of turn and only for myself, but my contention is that it ought to be labeled so that paranoid wackos like myself know what they're putting in their bodies.

No big problem for me in principle. In practice though, there's lots of organic food shops who advertize their food as being free of genetically engineered ingredients. (The honest ones among them are even prepared to document their supply chain and prove it.) So why not buy from them, and just assume that everything else is genetically engineered?
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 10:43 am
It's not easy finding organic food shops though. At least in my area.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 10:44 am
Montana wrote:
On that note I'd also like to add that I don't think it's a good idea to mess with genetics.

Well, sex with condoms messes with genetics too, and in the language of your earlier post, it is also "just not natural". Yet it is quite enjoyable ... or so a stranger I met in a pub once told me.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 10:47 am
I hate condoms as well, but they save lives and help prevent sexually transmitted disease, so I can't say anything bad about those babies ;-)
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 10:53 am
Montana wrote:
I hate condoms as well, but they save lives

... as do genetically modified crops, which drive down the cost of food and thus make it affordable for people who would otherwise starve. We in the first world have the luxury of shunning perfectly good, nutrious food because it offends our metaphysics. But there are tens of millions of people out there for whom a ban on such crops would amount to a death sentence. That's why I probed whether you would advocate such a ban, and why I'm quite relieved that you don't.
0 Replies
 
 

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