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Is the Zionist revolution is over?

 
 
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2005 03:10 am
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/comment/0,10551,1450812,00.html

an extract:

"Israeli intellectuals associated with the trend known as post-Zionism imagine with confidence a Jewish life in the area without a Zionist state."

Please can we have some sensible discussion on this, without name calling.
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stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2005 11:24 am
Zionism is based on the Jewish tradition, in the desire for a homeland for the jewish people.
the Jewish people according to their tradition are not an ethinic group but a group based on theological belief. it is believed that G-d created the people by holding a mountain over their heads and demanding they accept the commandments.

Zionism on the other hand removes if not rejects the 'hand or place' of G-d in the establishment of a jewish homeland, because it rejects His role in the matter and relies entirely upon humans and not the divine.

the stronger zionism becomes the weaker judaism becomes and is becoming.
Yet even the most athiestic of zionist will refer to the Old testament to explain why G-d has specifically given him Palestine to take, yet he doesnt believe in G-d??

the biggest victim of zionist experiement along with the Palestinian people will be the Judaic faith.

Zionism is the biggest disaster to befall judaism after the reformation movement.

Zionism is morally bankrupt, even the brute force and lobbies it uses to surpress this fact maybe somehat effective now, will not exist forever.

Zionism has no future and will be condemned by history and the future people of the world, in the same way South African apartheid and nazi germany are condemned, even though in their height they thought they had friends and sympathizers when history looks back we know what vile ideologies they were.

Jewish life has existed peacefully before without the existence of a zionist state and one day it will again, G-d willing.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2005 12:20 pm
"Jewish life has existed peacefully before without the existence of a zionist state and one day it will again, G-d willing."

Well thanks for that steve. I couldn't agree more, but not being Jewish (are you?) I feel as if I'm not allowed to say as much.

Thats partly why I linked to the article written by a Jew.
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Moishe3rd
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 May, 2005 04:52 pm
stevewonder wrote:
Zionism is based on the Jewish tradition, in the desire for a homeland for the jewish people.
the Jewish people according to their tradition are not an ethinic group but a group based on theological belief. it is believed that G-d created the people by holding a mountain over their heads and demanding they accept the commandments.

Zionism on the other hand removes if not rejects the 'hand or place' of G-d in the establishment of a jewish homeland, because it rejects His role in the matter and relies entirely upon humans and not the divine.

the stronger zionism becomes the weaker judaism becomes and is becoming.
Yet even the most athiestic of zionist will refer to the Old testament to explain why G-d has specifically given him Palestine to take, yet he doesnt believe in G-d??

the biggest victim of zionist experiement along with the Palestinian people will be the Judaic faith.

Zionism is the biggest disaster to befall judaism after the reformation movement.

Zionism is morally bankrupt, even the brute force and lobbies it uses to surpress this fact maybe somehat effective now, will not exist forever.

Zionism has no future and will be condemned by history and the future people of the world, in the same way South African apartheid and nazi germany are condemned, even though in their height they thought they had friends and sympathizers when history looks back we know what vile ideologies they were.

Jewish life has existed peacefully before without the existence of a zionist state and one day it will again, G-d willing.


Weird.
I disagree with your thesis, but I am not particularly prone to arguing the point once again.
However, your conclusion is just plain bizarre.
What is your definition of a "peaceful life?"
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HofT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 01:41 pm
Steve - hi. There's at least one Zionist of my acquaintance; he posts a weekly column under the pseudonym "Spengler" in the Asia Times. He's wonderfully informed on the area and the players - even if you disagree with his conclusions, as I usually do! - and worth reading. He advocates nuking Iran though he - generally - views the neocons with suspicion

Here is an excerpt from his latest:
_____________________________________________________________

"Never in the course of human conflict have so many done so much so quickly to disillusion so few, referring of course to President George W Bush and his advisers. Iraqi, Lebanese, Palestinian and Syrian leaders kicked away the props behind Washington's stage-set for democracy in the Middle East, all within the space of four days.

Hezbollah, after sweeping elections in the south of the country on June 5 in Lebanon's staggered polls, laughed at American demands that it disarm. Hamas holds the balance of power in Palestine after Mahmoud Abbas postponed parliamentary elections scheduled for July 17. Syria, meanwhile, went back to its usual business of intimidating local as well as Lebanese opponents. And on June 8, Iraq's Shi'ite and Kurdish leaders embraced the ethnic militias now engaged in a low-level civil war with the country's Sunni Arabs. "

http://atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/GF14Ak01.html
_____________________________________________________________
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HofT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 02:05 pm
P.S. to Steve: "Spengler" also has a very interesting forum, where I also used to post, though I haven't followed recently; this is the link to my last post there >
http://forum.atimes.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=66&whichpage=5
> which he answered, charmingly quoting Mephistopheles Smile
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HofT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 02:09 pm
P.P.S. for some reason the link refers to the first page of that thread; my last comment on that forum was on page 5 of same - and I just noticed the speculation has reached no fewer than 12 pages....
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 02:16 pm
well thanks everyone especially hoft

seems my threads take a long time to get going but then, when they do........they normally fizzle out.



But again I'm glad to read some opposing views, well argued and without invective...isnt that how it should be?
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