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Mon 28 Mar, 2005 10:37 am
As we all have seen over the past few weeks, Il Papa is on his last legs. Many think he should step down, and I agree. Why do these guys all have to stay in their religious post until their dying breath?
Can't they just retire his jersey (or that big white robe thingie, as the case may be), and pick another guy to take over?
I think he should retire and take up smoking. What do you think he should do?
Hm....thought provoking....I am a reformed Catholic so the better part of me wants to be nice.
But the bad girl wants to say something mean....
He's Polish. He's a trooper. He's in it for the duration.
I think there's a good case to be made for retirement, but there isn't much precedent for it. More Popes have been deposed or murdered - or at least have died under less-than-satisfyingly-explained circumstances - than have retired. Voluntarilly steppin' down just doesn't seem to be a deal with that particular job.
I think it's pretty sad and uncomfortable watching him die. I dunno whether it's his decision or the vatican's decision - whether it's a PR thing or something to do with spirituality. All I know is that it's unnerving to me. I feel bad for him.
He might be able to, but it seems it's been a while since any Pope tried to retire from the papacy.
Quote:Stephen Haliczer, a distinguished research professor at Northern Illinois University and leading expert on the papacy, points out that the last pope to resign was Gregory XII in 1415. "There really aren't any good procedures in canon law that provide for retirement, and it is an issue because popes are living longer, just like the rest of us," Haliczer says. "Suppose a pope is incapable of carrying on. Popes can choose to resign or retire but cannot be forced to do so."
If he doesn't wanna retire, they can't make him.
http://www.niu.edu/PubAffairs/RELEASES/2005/feb/papal.shtml
These guys look like fun
http://www.splendoroftruth.com/curtjester/archives/005445.php
I think they tend to think god retires 'em when he is ready.
Sad.
Though, presumably his current duties are light, he is getting a lot of attention - I suspect he is happy to be dying in harness.
Kicky, I think every morning he wakes up intending to retire, than 15 minutes later he forgets.
He has said "How can a father retire?" implying that he doesn't even have a choice.
I saw some on TV saying that the pope is teaching us how to live and die by his own example.
I don't like the idea of forced retirement. What if he wants to do something that'll take him longer? But I think it would be nice in this day and age to begin a trend of voluntary retirement.
Oh yeah, the poor guy should be able to rest for heavens sake. I always wondered if they had a choice.
Montana wrote:Oh yeah, the poor guy should be able to rest for heavens sake. I always wondered if they had a choice.
no they try to keep them alive as long as possibly for some reason.... even when he can't really molest the youngins' like he used to back in the glory days....
inner-peace, there's no denyin' the faults of some Popes ... matter of clear and readily accessible record. The same is the case with any institution of human construct.
I challenge you, however, to support your allegation, or to retract it, with accompanyin' acknowledgement of personal excess and error. I don't expect you to take the challenge, let alone surmount it; I anticipate your reaction to same will serve merely to further establish your credentials in the matters at discussion.
It does seem that they're making some changes to make sure there will be a retirement age in the future.
Odd, as the mandatory retirement laws here just got wiped out.
The pendulums just keep on swinging.
Sincere question -- sorry if it's a dumb one, I don't know a lot about this.
Isn't papacy more about who a person is than the job? Like, a person who has some sort of intrinsic holiness is discovered? That's what I had thought, and why retirement doesn't really fit -- if you're the supreme holiness on earth or whatever, it doesn't really work to retire.
I may be getting stuff about the Dalai Lama mixed up with it.
IMO, the answer is quite simple.
If one looks at European history, one can find a lot of succession wars.
The Pope is a childless king of a big spiritual and secular empire. Who is to be the heir?
When a Pope dies and white smoke comes off the Vatican appointing a new one, there are always some frustrated cardinals who wanted another candidate, but yield to the sprit de corps of the Catholic church.
If John Paul II retires, the possibility of a rebellion from the frustrated cardinals who did not see their candidate win increases very much.
They can say -like many nobles in different European countries said through the ages- that they recognize no one but the frail, very sick, but still living Pope... and appoint an alternative Pope after the death of John Paul II.
Bingo, the Catholic church is split.
In other words, Woytila just can't retire. Even if he wants to.
Besides, having a Pope Emeritus in the background might make it tough for the new Pope...
This particular Pope is one conservative dude and, as such, not likely to be fond of setting any precedents. As has already been pointed out, there really is no provision in Canon Law for such retirement. There's nothing that forbids it, either. But, again, that would be setting a precedent and one never knows where precedents might eventually lead. But this Pope is also a stoic as any clergyman who survived Communist rule would have to be. I believe that he thinks his present condition puts him in a Job-like situation where submission to God's will is the only possible choice. I don't envy him, but I do respect him and his decision.
Timber, I find it's easier to ignore inner-peace than to admonish him. He is a puppy who has deluded himself into believing that he's a Budhist. This makes me smile. I'll bet it makes Asherman roar with laughter.
Well, there is precedent for retirement, but it goes back about 600 years.
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