Is the Human Race on a Suicide Mission?

@livinglava,

So you don’t know how it would work in practice.

Me neither. That’s probably a sign that it wouldn’t work.

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

So you don’t know how it would work in practice.

Me neither. That’s probably a sign that it wouldn’t work.

That's a stupid, defeatist thing to say. I only said I don't know because I wanted to see if you would have any creative input to figuring it out. I get tired of figuring things out on my own and having others just react against whatever I say because it's not something they recognize as having already been established.

People need to start sticking their necks out to come up with new ideas and work out the kinks so they become implementable. There are too many people who only criticize and knock down ideas and never work constructively to build up anything new.

1 Reply

@livinglava,

livinglava wrote:

I get tired of figuring things out on my own

Hey, if you’re going to solve climate change by innovative means, you ought to get ready to figure a few things on your own so that you can speak authoritatively, like you know what you’re talking about.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

livinglava wrote:
I get tired of figuring things out on my own

Hey, if you’re going to solve climate change by innovative means, you ought to get ready to figure a few things on your own so that you can speak authoritatively, like you know what you’re talking about.

I do, but sometimes I foresee in a conversation like this one with you that I'm going to be the one putting in all the creative/constructive input, and you're going to just ridicule and give reasons why things won't work. Is there a reason I should want to have such a discussion?

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@livinglava,

Quote:

Is there a reason I should want to have such a discussion?

Of course not. You’re here to whine about how people should use their imagination to solve climate change because governments don’t work...

In my opinion, goverments do work. I don’t need to live in lah-lah land.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Of course not. You’re here to whine about how people should use their imagination to solve climate change because governments don’t work...

In my opinion, goverments do work. I don’t need to live in lah-lah land.

Ask not what your government can do for you . . .

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@livinglava,

Nobody is stopping you from cycling to work, cancelling your faraway vacation or switching air-con off.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Nobody is stopping you from cycling to work, cancelling your faraway vacation or switching air-con off.

No, but not enough people are doing these things despite the fact that they are capable of choosing to. If you tried to pass legislation mandating them to do it, they would resist as would the businesses that make money selling them the products.

So at some point, it might be possible to circumvent majoritarian-obstructionism by suing people/businesses/municipalities directly for policy/behavior changes. In this way, you take away their option to pay-to-pollute/abuse. They have to use their liberty responsibly or have it taken away.

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https://www.collective-evolution.com/2018/11/09/monsanto-team-leader-blows-the-whistle-on-what-gmos-do-to-human-health/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0pn1TJzFiK5D5avuTDirbyA--tR9Q1ApdgZSpN2zx005c5dhORgZ6l12c
Caius Rommens was a director at Simplot Plant Sciences where he led the development of the company's genetically engineered Innate potato. He is also a former longtime Monsanto team leader. He is now blowing the whistle on GMOs.

0 Replies

@livinglava,

Quote:

at some point, it might be possible to circumvent majoritarian-obstructionism by suing people/businesses/municipalities directly for policy/behavior changes.

Can't wait to sue the US. And China!

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
at some point, it might be possible to circumvent majoritarian-obstructionism by suing people/businesses/municipalities directly for policy/behavior changes.

Can't wait to sue the US. And China!

You can't sue some citizens to change others. You have to sue the specific individuals/policies you want to change.

If you want to sue at the national level to stop all fracking, for example, you just sue the fracking industry directly and then the court rules against them to stop fracking. If the practice continues despite precedents against it, you get a warrant to destroy fracking equipment when you find it in use, the same as you could get a warrant to destroy a cocaine lab in the jungle upon collecting evidence of it being in operation. There has to be due process, though, so you establish in court a specific set of rules to follow when taking action, and you would of course be liable for falsifying evidence to justify hostilities, for example.

1 Reply

@livinglava,

I want the US as a whole to change radically, so I'll sue them as as whole. I'm no bottom feeder.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

I want the US as a whole to change radically, so I'll sue them as as whole. I'm no bottom feeder.

That's a totally meaningless statement. You might as well say that you're unhappy so you're suing the world for causing your unhappiness.

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You two should get a room.

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@livinglava,

You mean, your idea of suing nations for policy change won't work? What a surprise...

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Or maybe a broom.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

You mean, your idea of suing nations for policy change won't work? What a surprise...

I never said to sue nations. I said to sue people and corporations for behavior/policy changes instead of money. In other words, take away the ability to pay to pollute/abuse. When a lawsuit results in the defendant stopping a harmful practice instead of paying a fine/settlement, you take away the financial motivation to abuse resources/power and cause harm.

1 Reply

@livinglava,

My guess is you want nations to avoid/skip responsibility, because you support Trump and he withdrew from the Paris accord...

You're basically saying: Yes, we Americans fucked the planet; sue us, ha ha ha!

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

My guess is you want nations to avoid/skip responsibility, because you support Trump and he withdrew from the Paris accord...

You're basically saying: Yes, we Americans fucked the planet; sue us, ha ha ha!

Indeed I think it is a distraction to turn it into a nationalist blaming competition, or a global tax-spend regime, etc.

Making Americans pay taxes to other countries to punish them for burning fuel isn't going to solve the problem; especially when the US has been groomed into the most wasteful industrial-consumerist economy because of the global interest in exploiting US consumer spending to make money and drive GDP globally.

The Paris accord was and is a ridiculously weak excuse for a real plan to solve climate degeneracy. It is a perfect example of how centralism distracts attention from the real problem, i.e. all the individual people and corporations failing to behave responsibly in their economic and personal activities.

If the courts would just allow people to sue for behavioral changes instead of money, and punish non-compliance with confiscation/impounding of business equipment instead of with fines that allow the companies and people to go on causing harm in order to make back the money they lost in the lawsuit, then actual change might ensue.

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@livinglava,

And if the courts would allow people to sue the US or China for policy change, the two biggest sources of CO2 emissions worldwide could be brought under control. But it's never going to happen. Your words are empty.

The Paris accord is weak but it's better than nothing.

With any luck, the consequences of climate change, e.g. hurricanes, will be more intense for the US than for Europe, providing a sort of natural justice...

1 Reply

Is the Human Race on a Suicide Mission?

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